Women in Church Music and Church Choirs

Reading J-J,s answers reminds me of what an author of a book about Luther wrote- that Luther wrote so much that to study his life was largely to neglect your own.
Also J-J's answers are so detailed it's like having a master piece described with a series of postage stamp sized views. You get all the detail you want but no actual picture.

 

I already replied in Post #67 about this: https://forums.anglican.net/threads/women-in-church-music-and-church-choirs.4325/page-4#post-49605. And again, your remark is an ignorantia elenchi. The real question is not whether or not 1 Corinthians 14:34/35 still applies today exactly as written, but firstly, whether or not the Church of England is under obligation, as a mere branch of the church catholic, to yield strict obedience and compliance to the time-honored received universal and perpetual customs of the universal and perpetual church catholic - merely because they are the time-honored received universal and perpetual customs of the universal and perpetual church catholic, even if those customs are not divinely revealed dogmas on faith and morals, and second - whether or not fidelity and conformity to the historical traditions of the church catholic require the exclusion of women and girls from church choirs.

1: Does the Church of England, though being a mere branch of the larger and more ancient church catholic, have the right and power to relax, abrogate, or dissent from any one of the time-honored received universal and perpetual customs of the universal and perpetual church catholic, knowing them not to be divinely revealed doctrines on faith and morals, nor deducible therefrom through good and necessary consequence? (In other words, knowing them to be non-dogmatic customs?) Or is she under obligation to conform even to these non-dogmatic customs of the universal church catholic? See https://forums.anglican.net/threads...toms-of-the-universal-church.4323/#post-45346 for a definition of dogmatic customs of the universal church and non-dogmatic customs of the universal church.

2: Would the universal customs of the church catholic permit the Church of England - in her capacity as a mere branch of the larger and more ancient church catholic - to admit women and girls in her church choirs???

These two questions MUST be answered in conformity first and foremost to the historical Christian belief that the Bible exactly as written is the divinely revealed, inerrant, infallible, irreformable, irremonstrable, intransigible, irrelaxable, and inobjurgable divinely revealed written Word of God, and secondly in conformity to the 39 Articles of Religion and in conformity to the Book of Common Prayer and the Canons of the Church of England as they had all stood before even the least taint of modernist heretical innovation ever polluted their pages.

 

Firstly let me say, I find nothing in the two passages that suggests that women should not sing in choirs, for it is not a matter of authority.

Secondly, let me say that Paul has other passages where he mentions women,

Here the issues seems not to be utterance, which is accepted, but rather to do with hair. Corinth of course as a Mediterranean Port City had a reputation that would make good people blush. What happens in Corinth stays in Corinth. Women's hair in Corinth, as I understand it had to do with the social milieu of the day, and numbers of women would be advertising their trade by way of their hair.

Thirdly your view of branch theory seems mechanistic, and may not altogether be adequate to address the matter of the Autocephalous Churches that through the Councils were able to express their common mind.

Fourthly I am not convinced the view of scripture you express is consistent with views held and expressed in the Thirty Nine Articles, nor in the mind of the Anglican Divines.

Your words 'the historical Christian belief that the Bible exactly as written is the divinely revealed, inerrant, infallible, irreformable, irremonstrable, intransigible, irrelaxable, and inobjurgable divinely revealed written Word of God' seem to take a stance in relation to Scripture rather beyond that of the Thirty Nine Articles from which we understand which books are received as Scripture, and are given to understand that they are inspired, and within Scripture might be found all that is required to believe unto salvation.

I realise that you have berated those who you do not agree with, with words like 'antinomian' and 'ignorantia elenchi', and that's fine. We are bigger than that, for we are Children of Grace, and our salvation rests on not what we do, but that that which Christ has done for us. We, in response to grace aspire to do well in all things, yet we will resist the Pelagian slip as to suggest that are follies and failures are not measured out and overcome by the Love of Christ spelled out upon the Cross.

 

What I meant by saying "mere branch of the larger and more ancient church catholic" is that the Church of England is a mere part, a mere fragment, a mere portion, and a mere department of the universal and perpetual Christian Church (otherwise known as the church catholic).

1: Does the Church of England, though being a mere part and not the whole (and therefore certainly not the mother church) of the larger and more ancient church catholic, have the lawful power and authority to relax, abrogate, or dissent from any one of the time-honored received universal and perpetual customs of the universal and perpetual church catholic, knowing them not to be divinely revealed doctrines on faith and morals, nor deducible therefrom through good and necessary consequence? (In other words, knowing them to be non-dogmatic customs?) Or is the Anglican Communion under obligation to conform even to these non-dogmatic customs of the universal church catholic? See https://forums.anglican.net/threads...toms-of-the-universal-church.4323/#post-45346 for a definition of dogmatic customs of the universal church and non-dogmatic customs of the universal church.

2: Would it still be consonant with the historical tradition of the church catholic to permit women to sing in solos, choirs, and special music in church, and even if not, well then, would the Church of England, which is a mere part and not the whole of the church catholic, ordinarily have the lawful authority to ordinarily contravene the historical tradition of the church catholic on this point????

It is these two questions that are foundational to the intent of the whole post "Women in Church Music and Church Choirs".