I'm not saying the Jesus lied. I'm saying that if what Jesus and Paul said is true then we are not near the end times. I'm using what Jesus and Paul said (and you must concede it is true) to prove from scripture that we are not in the end times. I assume you are saying if I search diligently I will find cases of false Christs. Well all I can say is I don't think the Devil is doing a good job. It seems to be flying under most people's radar, including heathens like me. I suspect any "false Prophets" if any are found are really false "false prophets" just ordinary people who are wannabe prophets. I have no idea what this is about it, seems to be some actor. I have given you various scripture reasons why we are not in the end times but you chose to ignore them. You haven't named any false Messiahs and Prophets. You haven't mentioned any great signs and wonders they have done. (Surely a news worth event) You haven't mentioned how the Son of Perdition will be ensconced in the Temple when its not built yet. I can legitimately say I don't believe scripture but you can't. What is wrong with my reasoning of Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2:4?
Actually, according to what is written in scripture we are currently in the 'end times' and have been ever since Christ Ascended from earth. The End Time has so far lasted nearly 2000 years and may well go on indefinitely until The Father decides the times will end. There have been many tin pot messiahs, David Coresh being only one insignificant example of one. (Though I rather doubt he actually claimed to be The Christ, he definitely encouraged his followers to believe he was 'annointed' and had special wisdom) Quite so! There are many out there already spreading rumours of Parousia, when they have really no idea when the Father has fixed the time for it to happen. We have an example in this forum currently.
I take your point but we usually think of it in terms of what Oseas refers to as I imagine claiming to be a prophet or Messiah is the easy part. It's the failing to do great signs and wonders that distinguishes these people from the Biblical "real McCoy false prophet".
I hear what you’re saying, but this is ‘saving the appearances’. The statements of Jesus and Paul as they have come down to us point to an expectation of something far more imminent than several millennia in the future, e.g., “this generation shall not pass away…”, “we shall not all sleep…”, etc. There is even some intra-NT awareness of this problem even then, e.g., “where is the promise of his coming?” (cf. 2 Peter 3:4ff). If we’re going to interpret these texts responsibly, it would appear that what the NT writers thought was the “end times” is already long past, and there’s nothing we can really say about it today, with respect to current events, one way or the other. This is why I said earlier that ongoing prognostications about it are a fool’s errand.
"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. The Lesson of the Fig Tree 28 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Although I am not convinced that the Parousia is hard upon our heels, there is ample evidence of climate crisis, human irresponsibility and all the other identifying signs Christ here predicts that every future generation should be looking for, to convice any sane person that we are on the brink of something new and very unpleasant for planet Earth and its inhabitants. There are 19 times in the Gospels that the words 'THIS Generation" are uttered by Jesus Christ. 17 of them are clearly addressed to HIS OWN generation. However the TWO that refer to the time that Jesus Christ HIMSELF could not predict may quite possibly have been referring to whatever generation would be actually observing the signs that Jesus Christ was describing. (Not his own generation). It is only in our own generation TODAY that a WORLDWIDE climate crisis has been foreseen and it beginnings are indeed, actually upon us. I can't think of any better way of gauging what's going on than noticing that the trees are all changing their fruiting seasons and the seas are rapidy rising, threatening to submerge many low lying civilisations. THE CLOCK IS TICKING and we are already past 23:59 as the ages go. Midnight strikes! No more delaying, 'The hour has come!' we hear them saying, 'where are ye all, ye virgins wise? .
I consulted the New International Greek Testament Commentary on Matthew regarding the phrase “this generation” in this passage, and this is what it says: Matthew 24:34 (NIGTC Mt): “Matthew uses γενεά here for the tenth time. Though his use of the term has a range of emphases, it consistently refers to…a single human generation. All the alternative senses proposed here (the Jewish people; humanity; the generation of the end-time signs; wicked people) are artificial and based on the need to protect Jesus from error. ‘This generation’ is the generation of Jesus’ contemporaries.”
I tend to agree with Invictus here. To my mind just reading the NT as a book you get the impression Jesus is to return while his generation is alive. There seems to be nothing that suggests it is centuries away (can anyone think of any). The only thing Jesus' contemporaries knew for sure was the parousia would be 30ish+ years away. Mods! You may want to split this thread to an "End times timing" thread. No Tiffy, not the mods at Brighton beach.
Best ask Jesus what he meant if we really want to know the answer though. What he said though proves he was absolutely right. He didn't know when it was going to happen. Only The Father knows that. .
It would be great if we could do that, but we can’t. It’s therefore up to those who invest the time and effort to learn the ancient languages, to tell us what they would’ve meant to their likely original audiences. “This generation” meant those who were alive at the time Jesus uttered those words. That generation is long gone. The canonical function of this text cannot be to purport to give us information about the “end times”.
Oh please, you should be honest. You above said that what JESUS said "is patently untrue"- is false. In fact you said JESUS lied, it means JESUS is a liar. Oh please, you should be honest.
Now the Devil will be cast down into the bottomless pit-Revelation 20:v.1-3. And all his followers into the hells fire, as JESUS said and He doesn't lie, as follows: Matthew 10:v.28 - Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Be careful or then get ready.
What is wrong with your reasoning? Even you yourself said by your own words, as is discribed bellow. You said: >>>Well all I can say is I don't think the Devil is doing a good job. It seems to be flying under most people's radar, including heathens like me.<<<
You are twisting what I am saying. I'm not saying what Jesus said is false. What is false is the many Prophets doing great signs and wonders. It's true Jesus said many will claim to be Prophets and do great wonders. It is false to claim this has happened as you would expect if the end times are near. Well fair enough if that's your take on this. But the reasoning was about Matt 24 and 2 Thess 2:4. You still seem unable to tell me about any false prophets or any great signs and wonders that have been done. You still haven't explained if Jesus is to return soon, how the Son of perdition will sit in the Temple when it is not built yet. Sorry to harp on about these two point but I never seem to get an answer.
I'm not twisting anything, actually it's you who twists what JESUS said and I have posted. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? In fact, the spirit of antichrist by which you are possessed as a "heathen", according your own words and confession, it is that evil spirit within you who surreptitiously is twisting the words of JESUS like he usually does, and that evil spirit are sowing here his satanic tares through you. My work is to reap the tares to be burned into everlasting fire. The Word is GOD -John 1:v.1, understand? JESUS said: Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-Matthew 10:v.28. Be careful or then get ready. Did you read and understand what I wrote ? How did you interpret what I posted in bold and in parenthesis, as I describe bellow? Here goes what I wrote in my post #16 and you quoted. Again, my point was/is about JESUS said: v.5 to 8 v.5 - For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Soon WILL MANIFEST the Beast of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, actually a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTOR, as said JESUS -John 5:v.43 combined with Revelation 13:v.11-18. Check it out). How did you interpret what I posted in bold and in parenthesis?
In the sequence of 2 Thess 2:v.4 , the verse 9 clarify crystalclear that the Wicked MAN WILL BE revealed in his time, as I have above said, for the mystery of iniquity -the secret power- doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (it means, but the one who now holds it back will continue to do), UNTIL he BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, understand? (there is only one who now endures until he is TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY), and then the lawless one -the Wicked MAN- WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth-HIS WORD-, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming. And from the time that the daily sacrifice SHALL BE TAKE AWAY, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:v.11-12 Who said to you the Temple will be built? You only believe in devilish lies spread by the spirit of Devil in whole earth, this explain why the earth is infested of pagans and liars, and you have drank of their satanic doctrines and theories. But I know how is hard to fight against the spirit of Devil and his devilish messengers. As I have posted in another sites, That story of building the temple in this current time, it is like the story that was invented about the sacrifice of a red heifer. None of this will happen because, as JESUS said: The Man known as the Beast will be chained and with him the false prophet that forges miracles before him(that is, before a Beast like a LAMB, a false LAMB, in fact a false messiah, an ESOTERIC and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST messiah, actually AN IMPOSTER - Revelation 13:v.11 to 14) deceiving them that will receive the mark of the Beast, these both will be cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. This WILL FULFILL in this time of the end LITERALLY. Revelation 19:v.19-20 Will the Jews build a Third Temple? | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com) The prophecies reveal all things which WILL FULFILL henceforward, day after day. By the way, the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy. If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His, understand? Also see more content about the supposed built of the Temple in this link https://www.christianforums.com/thr...fers-sent-to-israel-from-texas.8259495/page-2 The suspposed end time Temple WILL NEVER been built, understand?
I think what Oseas is trying to say is that we're waiting for the arrival of the Keymaster of Gozer. The sign will be a giant Stay Puft Marshmellow Man.
You should help him get out of the darkness of the satanic trap of paganism into which he has fallen and which holds him, not push him from there to hell. You really are a killer of souls.
I would like to mention that the Jewish Israelis have done all the prep work for the temple. They have the rare red heifers. They have made the special blue dye, all the utensils that are called for in temple use, and more. Once they have the site nailed down, I think they could amaze us with how quickly they could erect another temple.
There’s one slight problem: another rather important building already rests on that site, and the Israelis haven’t the slightest intention of destroying it (nor should they).