Pardon such a broad topic in the midst of these focused and intelligent threads, but this is simply an observation from someone who has recently returned to the "liturgical church" from modern evangelicalism. There is such a movement underway on the evangelical side to "de-church" buildings, music and teachings, all in the name of being "user friendly", and personally I find it disturbing. My chosen house of worship is a place who's architecture, adornments, music, and teachings are scared and/or sanctified (set apart), but the modern American church is a plain room with rock bands, coffee bars, and live streaming to FaceBook for those not motivated to get out of bed. To me, the God who formed the universe, cared enough to come in the flesh and to ultimately die for my sin, deserves much more than common. Jeff+
Great thoughts Jeff. I agree. Over the past couple of weeks, I have moved to Colorado Springs, the very heart of American Evangelicalism. There are churches on every corner--I mean EVERY corner--but few actually look like the kind of building that would inspire me to enter. If one truly believes that one is going to meet the Divine when one goes to church, either through uplifting one's heart and mind to God through prayer or by sharing in Christ's real presence through the Eucharist, I would hope that one would try to give him one's best (this is why I think one should dress up for church too). Churches are imo supposed to be little embasies from heaven here on earth. They should look the part. I don't mean to say that one cannot have a meaningful church experience on a basketball court with folding chairs, big screens and a stage rather than a pulpit, or wearing a t-shirt and sweats, but if one can do better, one should. I think of the prophet Haggai: "Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste? Now therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord." The Lord wants his place of worship to be at least as nice as his worshippers. He is the King of the Universe after all, why should we strive to make our homes palaces and not do more for the house of God? There is a rather Anglo-catholic parish I once visited that put this way, we should "worship in the beauty of holiness and the in holiness of beauty". God gave us our senses and our bodies to glorify him. Thus we should use our senses in worship and create an environment that will inspire our senses. Thanks for starting this post.
Jeff, welcome to Anglican Forums; also, you are perfectly right in this topic. We aren't all called to talk about deep intellectual complexities all the time. Such things are very likely to hurt our childlike faith in Christ Jesus. Even the Roman Church is falling into the problems you describe. It's not just an evangelical-megachurch problem. There are romanist churches from the '70s that are like spaceships or bizarre experimental swimming pool complexes. All sense of sacred traditional ideas and imagery has just fallen into the dustbin. Somehow there is much currency behind the idea of dumbing-down the faith, into something of gnostic indifference to physicality. As much as I personally hate Gothic, I'd prefer a Gothic cathedral to the Roman cathedral of Los Angeles, or the dumpy-looking Public-Library Churches. Worst of all is the use of cafés at the back of churches. Putting coffee and donuts out will not entice people to believe in God and His Christ. The same is true of broadcast-services for anyone who isn't an invalid or shut-in. The fact is that there are many called (not even all are called), and few are chosen. This era is a time of the Few; the majority want ease, pleasure, food, sex, and themselves. God is a worthless thought for most people in most eras, but in this day & age that sort of thinking is encouraged by society at large. If we are not architects, it's our duty to work hard, save money, and pay those who we know will construct or refurbish old churches for use. I am convinced that bringing back the aesthetics of Wren, Gibbs, Jones, and other classicists would lend reverence to churches, worship, and precious souls. You've hit a very important nail on the head with this post. We are not disembodied spirits who can safely presume to officially-worship God in an hotel lobby.
I agree with you in part Consular. I don't like the idea of any business operating out of a church, including cafes, bookstores, or coffeehouses. There's enough moneychangers already in the temple. But I think streaming services on TV or the web is a great outreach and evangelization tool.
In a sense I know what you mean, Lowly Layman, but such practices haven't exactly helped increase the number of faithful Christians in Canada or the United States. The mainline Anglican churches are dying, regardless of such measures. I think the decline in numbers has somewhat to do with the "unsacred" spaces, made profane by their blocky, cubist, or modernist abstract deconstructionist architectural vocabulary. Such meaningless buildings subtly inculcate meaninglessness in the minds of those who see them - like serif fonts subtly communicate nobility & stability, and sans-serif fonts subtly communicate something less serious. Once meaninglessness and abstraction are in the mind, sermons become mixed-up, the faith becomes relative to place & time, etc. Our recapturing of holiness & sacredness must start in the immediate physical world. Inspiration & human nature are at stake - but we can actually do something.
In defense of my Anglican roots and tradition, I've had some very interesting debates with dear friends who consider themselves fundamental Baptists. Their concerns revolved around vestments, Bishops, altars and what they refer to as idol worship, but they seemed indefensible when I pointed out that the Baptist vestment was a suit and tie for men, and long covering dresses for women. I also pointed out that their was a certain architecture common to any Baptist church and the variation seemed to be either red or blue carpet As far as altars, I asked if their church ever had an "altar call" to the back of the church, and as far as Bishops are concerned, Bill Hybels, Bob Jones or Billy Graham are certainly the evangelical equivalent. They also fail to understand the historical place of Anglican tradition in almost every form of modern American worship. I'm blessed to have an old Baptist prayer book passed down to me from my Virginian grandfather, and the similarities of that to our BCP is amazing!
You are absolutely spot on in your assessment of modernist church architecture imo. But I think the slide of the episcopal church into secularism, liberalism, and new ageism is the real cause of decline (and decay). Heresy is sinking the ship and streaming video is only one way to plug one hole, but the ploblem is far bigger one than technology, alone, without real reform, can fix. Having said that, it doesn't mean shouldn't be used.
Warning: Not an Anglican I do agree with the opinion here that worship should be special. It irks me to see that Christians are so flippant about worship to the most high God. Worshiping at church is a special time to praise the MOST IMPORTANT PERSON in all of life: God. These modern buildings seem to cater more to the whims of the worshipers and are less focused on the God WHO IS TO BE WORSHIPED. However, one should also be careful to say that all churches who don't have majestic services are like the modern churches aforementioned. I remember visiting to a very poor church which on the outside wasn't very impressive. However, seeing the people's devotion to Christ, I was touched by the simple and Christ-focused service.
It is hard to say. I do agree with the solas; however, I don't currently identify with any particular church or denomination at the moment. Currently, I just label myself a Christian. It isn't that I think that relativism is good; it's just that I'm still thinking and contemplating over the various views. P.S. I'm also not old enough to live alone and so I go to the church that my parents go to. Although it is non-denominational, it is also very Christ-centered and more orthodox and serious in Christian doctrine and faith.(And I feel spiritually nourished here )
Pax_Christi, God bless you on your search and faith journey. I myself entered the Episcopal Church at age 18, a time when my friends were focused on cars, girls and parties, but I was blessed to be studying under my Uncle ( a Parish Priest). Use this time to study, compare and pray where God would have you, at a time when you can choose! Jeff+
A very wise statement, and, in my opinion, one of the strengths of the ECUSA. The majestic Cathedral co-exists along side the small mission church on the Lakota/Sioux reservation with 5 people huddled around a pot belly stove. My problem is when a group has the ability and resources to construct a structure honoring God, and they choose to build a ultra modern building consciously avoiding what they deem "traditional". Jeff+
I think all starts with a mindset to make the most beautiful thing to God. To actually give time and passion and all we have in building the Church, in preparing the sermon, in us getting prepared to go to Church... It is not the outcome that will matter but often times the outcome shows the heart. Like Cain and Abel, one gave of his fruits but the other gave the first-born...
I know the Forward Movement publication has a few opponents on this forum, but Friday's (01/04) devotion hit home with me, and was in line with this thread. "This sense of awe has largely disappeared from many churches today, where a laid-back ambiance is prized- "Wear your jeans and sneakers, bring your coffee, be comfortable, don't trouble yourself". This is probably a reaction to the stiff formality once found in many churches, but if our Deity becomes too comfortable, too chummy, it will no longer be the God of the bible. Jeff+
This reminds me of the passage(s) in Revelation where they say they wore white robes and many things like that.