Do angels have wings ? Or did we paint it on them ?

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by arik88, Feb 18, 2023.

  1. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    What are angels for you ? Are they real or something we saw but cannot explain ? Have you seen an angel ?
     
  2. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    The bible refers that malakim is the way how Judaism called angels, the word angel comes from the word “Angelos” greek meaning messenger truth be told they are powerful beings and the order how angels were portay by the catholic church are wrong. The catholic portays them as human and child-like they were never that figure. But in biblical times the bible says it prohibits the israelites from depicting things from heaven.

    20:4 exodus
    You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath.

    This is case that angels could not be depicted and painted and most the images in the internet and the catholic paintings from the renassaince are wrong. Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.

    Ezekiel 10:1-22

    That is closest what is described even though angels appear to him, How did this portrayal of angels in a good vs evil appears that angels will destroy each other
    in the celestial war ?
     
  3. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    Zoroastrianism
    Is the influence that Catholic, Judaism, and Modern-Day Christian fall for it, It teaches that good and evil exist in the plane of angels heirarchy and angels all have wings and all are special beings. such as its monotheism, messianism, belief in judgement after death, conception of heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems. Even though Judaism predates it even before the exile of babylon the kingdoms of Judah and Israel worshipped other Gods and accepted influence from other religions. Zoroastrianism influence it all and this concept of angels and demons arouse.

    What is the closest we know on how the angels really look like, how the lord is in his throne with them is
    hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

    It is reference of what power he is made of and the angels around him are made of fire like his because he is so powerful other ranks of angels under Seraphim, Cherubins, and Ophafins ( Thrones ) can be near him.
    G-d is not men or women in appearance but fire he can come down here as man but in heaven his body is fire !!!
    The angels are made of his fire and can withstand his enormous power
     
  4. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    The question do angels have wings ? some do and some don’t their is heirarchy that exist but for christians Seraphims are the high order the top but for hebrew (Judaism) chayot ha kadesh are the higher caste but here is an example.

    Maimonides
    he puts heirarchy like this

    Rank Angelic Class Notes

    1 Chayot Ha Kadesh [21] See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
    2 Ophanim See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
    3 Erelim See Isaiah 33:7
    4 Hashmallim See Ezekiel 1:4
    5 Seraphim See Isaiah 6
    6 Malakim Messengers, angels
    7 ElohimGodly beings
    8 Bene ElohimSons of Godly beings
    9 Cherubim See Hagigah 13b
    10 Ishim “manlike beings”, see Genesis 18:2 Daniel 10:5
     
  5. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    Then the christian one

    1: Seraphims
    2:Cherubins
    3:Thrones (Ophanims)
    4.Dominations
    5.Virtues
    6.Powers
    7.Principalities
    8.Archangels
    9.Angels

    Are the order of christians.

    But because of the flood, the destruction of the temple of Solomon when babylon attacked, and other times history is destroyed in Israel by this calamities we do not know the way is organized and rabbi’s say that great information was lost in this incidents of history we do not know how the order is ?

    Some scholars say Chayot Ha Kodesh are indeed Archangels so the order maybe switched.
    So where does it says angels have wings ? one part says it.
     
  6. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    When moses made the ark God instructed him to put wings on the cherubs !

    1 kings6:27

    27And he placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple. Since their wings were spread out, the wing of the first cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the second cherub touched the other wall, and in the middle of the room their wingtips touched.

    It shows the ark was made with cherubs and their wings.

    Where does it say they don’t have wings ?

    The ophanims ( Thrones)

    they do not have wings

    Ezekiel 1:15-21

    As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of
    the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.
     
  7. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose.

    Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

    When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

    No where in this part do they have wings.

    There is error that people see angels like child-like babies that have wings and the Catholic church depicted them as cherubs such A way and the bible never said they look like that but powerful creatures with 4 wings of the Lord !!! People the eyes are fooled for what they see and people who saw angels cannot see the whole being for it is A being of fire.
    A fire more greater than suns but what does the bible say about Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel aren’t they archangels shouldn’t they be Chayot

    Ha Kadesh the truth is Raphael and Uriel are not biblical based they are not God’s angel another error of undocumented history they are used by the catholic church and Jewish writtings but cannot be proven their base. They do not appear in the tanak or bible no part. The bible only talks of 2 angels and they are Mikael and Gavriel they are the angels G-d sends to talk to his prophets. So people the bible only talks about Michael and Gabriel only.
     
  8. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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    From memory there is no mention of wings when angels have appeared as they did several times during the Bible. I believe the ones with wings are called cherubim and seraphim.
     
  9. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    This is this the importance of the truth of angels some do have wings and others don't. We see Ezekiel and Isaiah talk about but what is written by God is that he told Moses to build the ark and showed us the cherubs there and it is what shows they were made with wings.
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said,
    Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts:
    the whole earth is full of his glory. Isa.6:1-3.

    This was a vision and each had six wings, but only twp of them were used to fly with. The wings on angels are sybolic of the fact that they are messengers of God. A bit like carrier pidgeons but made of light.
    .
     
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  11. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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    So cherubs from arik88 and seraphim from Tiffy. Both heavenly creatures but not angels. Angels don't have wings.
     
  12. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    we have to see people cherubs means different from angels and seraphims. Thier names are different menas what they do, just for the record Ophanims or thrones don't have wings cherubs and seraphims do.
     
  13. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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    I had to look that up. The ophanim, alternatively spelled auphanim or ofanim, and also called galgalim, refer to the wheels seen in Ezekiel's vision of the chariot in Ezekiel 1:15–21.
     
  14. arik88

    arik88 Member

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    some have wings and other do not interesting the servants of God.
     
  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  16. CRfromQld

    CRfromQld Moderator Staff Member

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    Tiffy likes this.
  17. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Definitely !!! I know that :laugh::clap:
    It's just a thought, not dissertation. :doh:
     
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  18. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I see Angels as part of creative whole.
    • Moral Beings without physicality - capable of moral choices without consuming time and space - Angels
    • Physical Beings without moral capacity - occupying time and space without the ability to discern between good and evil - Animals
    • Moral Beings with physicality - sharing with angels the capacity for moral choice and with animals physicality and mortality - Human Beings.
    Scripture speaks of Angels sometimes referencing wings and sometimes not. We know that some animals have wings and some do not.
     
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  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    A quite reasonable supposition. The population of 'Heaven' is not exclusively human, or at least that is what scripture seems to indicate. I don't think it is possible to reason, from the silence of scripture, that some angels do or do not have wings. We simply have to accept that there are many things the human race does not yet know, and scripture does not tell us everything there is to know. It tells us that itself.
    .