Baptisim and The forgiveness of sins

Is it an Anglican teaching that in the act of baptisim God forgives our sins ?..And if so how is it reconciled with the concept of justification by faith alone . ? thank you .

 

Andy,

I'd be happy to answer.

Actually, the Bible doesn't say we are saved by faith, alone. The phrase "faith alone" appears only once in the New Testament:
James 2:23-25 English Standard Version (ESV)
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, (A)“Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a (B)friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also (C)Rahab the prostitute justified by works (D)when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

If you read all of James, you will find that James 2:23-25 is not talking about a "works salvation," but salvation in which faith without works is dead.

The belief in Baptismal regeneration has a long Tradition within Christianity, beginning in the New Testament.

Even John, whose voice as one crying in the wilderness to prepare the way of the Lord, proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Would Baptism in the Name of the Holy Trinity accomplish less?

Mark 1 (ESV):
3 the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
'Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,'"
4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

Remember God said the uncircumcised and the unclean will no more come into Jerusalem.
Isaiah 52:
1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake yourself from the dust and arise;
be seated, O Jerusalem;
loose the bonds from your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion.

Holy Scripture tells us that Baptism is the Circumcision made without hands. Baptism brings us into the New Covenant through Christ, just as circumcision brought God's people into the Old Covenant. We, Gentiles, who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ; for he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility.

Ephesians 2:
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility.

Colossians tell us very clearly that Baptism is the Circumcision made without hands. By putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, we are buried with him in baptism, in which we are also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Acts gives a very direct call to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. So, we know that Baptism is God's choice for imparting Grace, as is the case with all the Sacraments. Our sins are forgiven through the Sacrament of Baptism. Sacraments are often misunderstood as a human work; when it is God who imparts the Grace and does the work in us through the Sacraments---through the means of His choosing.

Acts 2 (ESV):
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is a link to the Liturgy of Holy Baptism in the 1979 Book of Common Prayer:
The (Online) Book of Common Prayer

I hope this helps.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

 

There is a saying that is often used in churches with sacramental theology that while God works through the sacraments that he is not bound by them ..Or in other words limited to work in them ..

 

Andy,
I agree with this statement. Obviously, there are situations in which one cannot be Baptized before death. In such a case, I do believe that one who calls upon the name of Christ and repents of sins will find salvation. The thief on the cross is a great example of God's mercy.

However, if it is in our power to follow the instructions given to us in the N.T.; we must follow them.

 

Our Lord Jesus Christ gave us 2 things to do (physical) Baptism and celebration of the Eucharist - All other things aside I don't know that it is too much to ask a person who wishes to find God through Christianity should be Baptised and celebrate the Eucharist. IMHO

 

its not of course but the problem lyes in placing a list of requirements in order to be right with God ,

 

I am sorry but I am confused :think: how is a ceremony (sacrament) used to welcome a person into the Christian Church a problem? As humans our lives are governed by rights of passage of type or another. Even in nature we rights of passage for some species. Please explain why you believe Baptism is a problem for admission to the Church community, not withstanding Annas comment above about death bed repentance.

 

I can't give you that explanation because i never said that ..Its very important that we all learn to read what is actually being said rather than telling the other party what they are saying then ask them to explain it .
I do not see church membership or obedience of any kind as being essentials to salvation . fruits of salvation perhaps, but not essentials .. So i doubt im in too much conflict with mainstream Anglicans with those views ..if so then so be it ..

 

I would suggest a different perspective on what's happening. Rather than seeing it as a list of requirements, see it as a gift that God offers to us. He comes to us in so many different ways. In Baptism, he is washing us clean. It is usually the entry to the Church. It is also a means by which the Holy Spirit brings us to faith, although there are other ways (John the Baptist knew his Lord before birth, thief on the cross was never baptized with water, etc.) So we're not saying "do this to be right with God." Instead, we're saying "God offers this to us. Come and be baptized, as he wants us to be!"

 

We were talking about Baptism right?

You said in response to my comment about Baptism and Christianity the following:

I responded with a question as to why you believe Baptism is a problem...

So I am sorry I don't understand what mean by your comments above... this is a genuine question, what have I misread?

 

The assumption was that i was saying that baptisim was a problem which i never did .It was not what you misread it is what you interjected . Thats why i am saying base a response what the other party has actually said ,, no more and no less ..

YOU WROTE ur Lord Jesus Christ gave us 2 things to do (physical) Baptism and celebration of the Eucharist - All other things aside I don't know that it is too much to ask a person who wishes to find God through Christianity should be Baptised and celebrate the Eucharist. IMHO

TO WHICH I REPLIED : continued below ..

 

Gordon

TO WHICH I REPLIED : but the problem lyes in placing a list of requirements in order to be right with God ..

From this you assumed something that cannot be rationally drawn from it ..

 

that makes sense to me and actually eases my mind thank you Adam ..

 

Sorry you have lost me totally - so I withdraw my question.

 

Glad I could help! I think understanding it comes down to recognizing something like this:

• Good View (Sacramental) God works in our lives through means. We should avail ourselves of these Sacraments. They are means of grace and can bring us to faith or increase our faith.
• Not my view, but the generally accepted Good non-Sacramental View: We obey ordinances because they are instructed in Scripture, and because they remember/symbolize important things. They are a response to faith.
• Bad View: Do these things or else.

Once the Bad View is out of the picture, it's easier to talk about the others. The Bad View makes Sacraments like Baptism all about me. The others, when understood properly, are about how we understand the Lord and the Church, Salvation as a moment vs a process, etc.

 

Andy I think I have finally worked out where the disconnect was - initially I was responding to what I liked about Annas post

I should have quoted Annas post but didn't...

Sorry I was not referring to your original question, so what you were saying makes sense if you thought I was...

I have been sitting here trying to work out what was going on.... :think:

 

Thanks Gordon .. We are online so things get confused often .. Obviously it was just a misunderstanding and if i contributed to it i ask your forgiveness .. I do appreciate your posts and i welcome them anytime ..

 

I was starting to consider sending a sample of our water supply away to get it tested, I am glad we got that sorted out.

 

Andy,
The Sacraments all come from Holy Scripture. They are not a man-made list of requirements for salvation, nor are they a human work. The Scriptures tell us that which is necessary for salvation. God accomplishes a work in us by imparting Grace according to His purpose and according to the means of His choosing.

Christ said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15) and "Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him” (John 14:21.)

The Commandments of Christ are certainly a list that we should be eager to find and obey. The Church helps us in this regard--through a faithful and truthful proclamation of the Gospel of Christ, and through the Sacraments in which certain Graces are imparted by God.

There is often a misconception about the Sacraments--that they are part of a "works salvation." This is not the case. We are obeying Christ when we participate in the Sacraments, and any "work" is done by the Holy Trinity.

I know I've been somewhat repetitive in this post, and I may be giving you information you already have. I don't really know that much about your background and current beleifs. So, please forgive me, if I have posted things you already know.

 

I understand what you are saying but i have yet to believe that the sacraments are in fact sacraments and not ordinances
So while i respect your right to believe what you do i am merely and inquirer .. Youre views are more than welcome and your particular perspective on Anglicanism helps me to delve into this more indepthlySo for that i thank you . .. I assume you were making general statements in your opening remarks and not directed towards me personally .. I don't know if you have the idea that i might believe that scaraments are man made and a list of requirements ..I did not say that at all ..just for the record .What i was talking about is the notion that there is a prescribed formula for salvation ..We have ben over all of this already so i certaintly understand your view on that .