Goodbye ACNA --> Hello TEC

For those who truly condone the actions of the Church, they also need to repent, however, I don't know any Episcopalians in my diocese who condone what the national church is doing.

 

So you sit in it but do not support it. Well that is certainly one way to do things. Let me know how that works out for you. I've already let you know how it went for that parish in my diocese

 

Lowly Layman has done a great job of that already a few post above but I will repeat them here for ease of reference:

Those quoted I will still return to my comment about common sense.... (If the Church is teaching what is contrary to the Scripture then one should for their own sake would be best to stay away from them)...

and here is a few of the ones I am aware regarding false prophets and false teachings:

Mathew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24
Mark 13:22
2 Peter 2:1
1 Tim 6:3

 

Just this morning on the ACNA FaceBook page, they were highlighting an ANCA Parish in Ft. Wayne Indiana. The link was to a Vineyard Christian Fellowship and I thought they had provided an incorrect link, but they responded publicly stating that this was indeed an ANCA Parish and that all clergy were either ordained as Deacon or Priest in the ANCA. I'm still trying to make the connection since the Vineyard is a charismatic fellowship who does not baptize infants, nor practice the Eucharist or recognize the Episcopacy, they openly encourage the public speaking of tongues and prophetic utterance, and was the genesis of the holy laughter movement. I'll refrain form negative comments, but I will be watching this merger process carefully.:think:

Jeff

 

Celtic is right that we cannot abide by heresy, but Hackney is also right that we are not a church unto ourselves. Adherence to the bishop, that foundational element of episcopal/apostolic Christianity, is how we can resolve both of these concerns. A man who is alone cannot be a Christian. To be a Christian is by definition to be a member of the body of Christ, and that membership occurs not by our own actions first and foremost, but by our baptism, and by our submission to the man who's been validly ordained, going back unto apostles of Christ. If an modern apostle had gone into error then we must throw ourselves under another.

Being a church unto yourself is utterly 'evangelical', by which I mean that it is alien to apostolic Christianity and Anglicanism. It is a modern invention of the same kind as sloped roofs, 'convention hall' churches, and drums during service -- it is alien to fundamental Christian reverence, piety and theology. But more pertinently it is alien to Anglican reverence and piety, which we believe are the best expression of Christianity.

To address Hackney's concerns, having multiple bishops over the same area is a negative consequence, but not un-Christian. Many times it had occurred during the early church, when bishops had disputes against one another. As long as a parishioner was with his bishop, he was counted a Christian, while the bishops (and larger bodies of bishops) resolved their differences amongst themselves.

 

I would be curious to hear the response of some of the ANCA folks on this Vineyard to Anglican merger, specifically how much Vineyard doctrine and practice will be allowed, what are they embracing, what are they rejecting? My head is just spinning at the concept of this, understanding the holy ghost laughter movement that erupted from these fringe congregations, and even among evangelical groups the Vineyard was viewed as "spiritual flakes".

Jeff

 

In Anglicanism, scripture is the primary authority -- yes, even above the BCP. Are you sure you're Anglican?

 

Jeff, I will say this: You have presented in your previous responses the only well-reasoned basis for staying in the TEC that I have encountered here -- the only one.

 

Loyal to what?

 

This isn't something that is just an ACNA thing. Back in the late 80s-early 90s, a minister of a large Assembly of God or some such pentacostal church decided to leave the denomination, many of his congregation followed. Over time they started an Episcopal Church, and the minister's son became the priest. I believe they still worship in a charismatic fashion and sing contemporary christian songs, while also including vestments and the eucharist. I found this link to an interview with the priest discussing the church.

 

Are you all not familiar with the Convergence Movement? The ACNA is Convergence Movement-friendly, from what I understand.

 

The Holy Bible states that homosexuality and abortion are against nature and God

 

I am not. I can't speak for others or their demographics, but around here the splinter groups from the ECUSA tend to be ultra conservative using the 1928 prayer book and old hymnal, and the practices associated with the charismatic movement would not be tolerated.

Jeff

 

I think you are describing the "Continuing Anglican" bodies. The ACNA has some differences with them.

The ACNA is not 1928 BCP-only or KJV-only, and it is friendly to Convergence; it also ordains women, whereas the Continuing Anglican bodies generally do not. I have an honorary doctor of divinity from a Continuing Anglican school, even though I have some doctrinal disagreements with them. They simply wanted to honor my 40 years of ministry, and I greatly appreciated that.

I do respect all Anglican bodies seeking to uphold orthodoxy, whether of the Continuing Anglican variety, or the Convergence Movement-friendly variety, or others.

 

As do I, I just was amazed that instead of it being an ELCA Lutheran or American Orthodox fellowship looking for deep Anglican roots, it was the Vineyard! The jump from baptizing only professing adults with the expectation of tongues following is a huge leap to traditional Anglican doctrine and dogma, let alone the remaining baggage from the charismatic movement. As I said to the ACNA Priest who responded to my concerns, I truly wish them the best and welcome them to the Anglican Communion.

Jeff

 

Not everyone in ACNA is charismatic, there are some high A.C's in there too. And liturgies vary, from 1928 BCP to 1985 BAS, and ACNA will have it's own liturgy soon. But TEC is apostate and so is ACoC

 

The singular person who takes it upon themselves to label an entire worship community "apostate", has fallen into the very same category.:think:

Jeff+

 

Do you really think he is alone in this declaration?

 

It's hard to say for sure, ask 100 people what constitutes apostasy and you'll get 100 different answers. Non use of the 1928 BCP, bible translations other than the KJV, women, blacks, celibate homosexuals, use of icons, non use of icons, have all been cited as examples.

Jeff

 

No one is saying that every member of TEC is apostate. But when homosexual sex is approved by the representative body of the denomination, what word should be used to describe such denomination?