Goodbye ACNA --> Hello TEC

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Scottish Monk, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    386
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    The Episcopal Church
    For those who truly condone the actions of the Church, they also need to repent, however, I don't know any Episcopalians in my diocese who condone what the national church is doing.
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  2. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    So you sit in it but do not support it. Well that is certainly one way to do things. Let me know how that works out for you. I've already let you know how it went for that parish in my diocese
     
    Gordon likes this.
  3. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    688
    Likes Received:
    512
    Country:
    Australia
    Religion:
    Franciscan - Anglican
    Lowly Layman has done a great job of that already a few post above but I will repeat them here for ease of reference:

    Those quoted I will still return to my comment about common sense.... (If the Church is teaching what is contrary to the Scripture then one should for their own sake would be best to stay away from them)...

    and here is a few of the ones I am aware regarding false prophets and false teachings:

    Mathew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24
    Mark 13:22
    2 Peter 2:1
    1 Tim 6:3
     
  4. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    Just this morning on the ACNA FaceBook page, they were highlighting an ANCA Parish in Ft. Wayne Indiana. The link was to a Vineyard Christian Fellowship and I thought they had provided an incorrect link, but they responded publicly stating that this was indeed an ANCA Parish and that all clergy were either ordained as Deacon or Priest in the ANCA. I'm still trying to make the connection since the Vineyard is a charismatic fellowship who does not baptize infants, nor practice the Eucharist or recognize the Episcopacy, they openly encourage the public speaking of tongues and prophetic utterance, and was the genesis of the holy laughter movement. I'll refrain form negative comments, but I will be watching this merger process carefully.:think:

    Jeff
     
  5. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    2,566
    Country:
    America
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Celtic is right that we cannot abide by heresy, but Hackney is also right that we are not a church unto ourselves. Adherence to the bishop, that foundational element of episcopal/apostolic Christianity, is how we can resolve both of these concerns. A man who is alone cannot be a Christian. To be a Christian is by definition to be a member of the body of Christ, and that membership occurs not by our own actions first and foremost, but by our baptism, and by our submission to the man who's been validly ordained, going back unto apostles of Christ. If an modern apostle had gone into error then we must throw ourselves under another.

    Being a church unto yourself is utterly 'evangelical', by which I mean that it is alien to apostolic Christianity and Anglicanism. It is a modern invention of the same kind as sloped roofs, 'convention hall' churches, and drums during service -- it is alien to fundamental Christian reverence, piety and theology. But more pertinently it is alien to Anglican reverence and piety, which we believe are the best expression of Christianity.

    To address Hackney's concerns, having multiple bishops over the same area is a negative consequence, but not un-Christian. Many times it had occurred during the early church, when bishops had disputes against one another. As long as a parishioner was with his bishop, he was counted a Christian, while the bishops (and larger bodies of bishops) resolved their differences amongst themselves.
     
    MatthewOlson likes this.
  6. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    I would be curious to hear the response of some of the ANCA folks on this Vineyard to Anglican merger, specifically how much Vineyard doctrine and practice will be allowed, what are they embracing, what are they rejecting? My head is just spinning at the concept of this, understanding the holy ghost laughter movement that erupted from these fringe congregations, and even among evangelical groups the Vineyard was viewed as "spiritual flakes".

    Jeff
     
  7. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian
    In Anglicanism, scripture is the primary authority -- yes, even above the BCP. Are you sure you're Anglican?
     
  8. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian

    Jeff, I will say this: You have presented in your previous responses the only well-reasoned basis for staying in the TEC that I have encountered here -- the only one.
     
    Jeff F likes this.
  9. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian
    Loyal to what?
     
  10. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    This isn't something that is just an ACNA thing. Back in the late 80s-early 90s, a minister of a large Assembly of God or some such pentacostal church decided to leave the denomination, many of his congregation followed. Over time they started an Episcopal Church, and the minister's son became the priest. I believe they still worship in a charismatic fashion and sing contemporary christian songs, while also including vestments and the eucharist. I found this link to an interview with the priest discussing the church.
     
  11. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian
    Are you all not familiar with the Convergence Movement? The ACNA is Convergence Movement-friendly, from what I understand.
     
  12. CatholicAnglican

    CatholicAnglican Active Member

    Posts:
    188
    Likes Received:
    162
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Traditional Catholic
    The Holy Bible states that homosexuality and abortion are against nature and God
     
    Celtic1 and Lowly Layman like this.
  13. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    I am not. I can't speak for others or their demographics, but around here the splinter groups from the ECUSA tend to be ultra conservative using the 1928 prayer book and old hymnal, and the practices associated with the charismatic movement would not be tolerated.

    Jeff
     
  14. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian
    I think you are describing the "Continuing Anglican" bodies. The ACNA has some differences with them.

    The ACNA is not 1928 BCP-only or KJV-only, and it is friendly to Convergence; it also ordains women, whereas the Continuing Anglican bodies generally do not. I have an honorary doctor of divinity from a Continuing Anglican school, even though I have some doctrinal disagreements with them. They simply wanted to honor my 40 years of ministry, and I greatly appreciated that.

    I do respect all Anglican bodies seeking to uphold orthodoxy, whether of the Continuing Anglican variety, or the Convergence Movement-friendly variety, or others.
     
    Jeff F likes this.
  15. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    As do I, I just was amazed that instead of it being an ELCA Lutheran or American Orthodox fellowship looking for deep Anglican roots, it was the Vineyard!:o The jump from baptizing only professing adults with the expectation of tongues following is a huge leap to traditional Anglican doctrine and dogma, let alone the remaining baggage from the charismatic movement. As I said to the ACNA Priest who responded to my concerns, I truly wish them the best and welcome them to the Anglican Communion.

    Jeff
     
    Celtic1 likes this.
  16. CatholicAnglican

    CatholicAnglican Active Member

    Posts:
    188
    Likes Received:
    162
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Traditional Catholic
    Not everyone in ACNA is charismatic, there are some high A.C's in there too. And liturgies vary, from 1928 BCP to 1985 BAS, and ACNA will have it's own liturgy soon. But TEC is apostate and so is ACoC
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  17. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    The singular person who takes it upon themselves to label an entire worship community "apostate", has fallen into the very same category.:think:

    Jeff+
     
  18. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Do you really think he is alone in this declaration?
     
  19. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    It's hard to say for sure, ask 100 people what constitutes apostasy and you'll get 100 different answers. Non use of the 1928 BCP, bible translations other than the KJV, women, blacks, celibate homosexuals, use of icons, non use of icons, have all been cited as examples.;)

    Jeff
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  20. Celtic1

    Celtic1 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    836
    Likes Received:
    419
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Celtic Christian
    No one is saying that every member of TEC is apostate. But when homosexual sex is approved by the representative body of the denomination, what word should be used to describe such denomination?