I will start with a communique issued recently by an official body of our two churches known as a Commission for Anglican-Orthodox Theological Dialogue. I don't know have you ever heard for that Commission? Communique: Commission for Anglican-Orthodox Theological Dialogue September 10, 2012 [Anglican Communion News Service] In the name of the Triune God, and with the blessing and guidance of our Churches, the International Commission for Anglican-Orthodox Theological Dialogue (ICAOTD) met at the University of Chester, United Kingdom during 3-10 September 2012. The Commission is grateful for the hospitality extended by the Anglican Communion. The ICAOTD is continuing in its in-depth study of Christian anthropology, particularly in regard to what it means to be a human person created in the image and likeness of God. The Commission discussed the draft of its joint theological work on this subject, developed through the collaborative studies of previous meetings and enriched by presentations at this meeting on nature and grace, marriage, celibacy and friendship, and creation. Recognizing the need for our churches to address the urgent issues of contemporary humanity, the Commission explored the application of its study, particularly in the area of ecology. The work of the Commission will continue at its next meeting in Novi Sad, Serbia in September 2013 at the invitation of His Holiness Irinej, Patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Metropolitan Kallistos of Diokleia Orthodox Co-Chairman Archbishop Roger Herft of Perth Anglican Co-Chairman Chester, Monday 10 September 2012 Full article here: http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/news.cfm/2012/9/10/acns5180
Metropolitan Ware is very ecumenically-focused and unity-minded. Interesting... it sounds like a lot of drafts going over very basic things, however. We all have our ideas set down & decided in these matters of anthropology. What do the Orthodox share with us? The Blessed Trinity, the Incarnation of the Word, the Agony, Passion, Death, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus the Christ who is Pantokrator & Last Adam, and we also hold the Episcopacy as His institution for preaching the Gospel. We have the Eucharist, Baptism, Confirmation, matrimony, holy orders, prayers in visiting the sick, rites of burial, and public penance.
Dear brother Consular, thank you for answering I agree with you. If I may be honest, I was inspired to open this topic after reading your thoughts about Orthodoxy in "Stance on female bishops" topic
DECR chairman sends Christmas greetings to the Archbishop of Canterbury 25.12.2012 Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations, sent Christmas greetings to the Archbishop Justin Welby of Canterbury; The text is given below. I greet you cordially with the great and saving feast of the nativity of Christ which fills our hearts with rejoicing and awe before the greatness of the mystery of the Incarnation of God. The Son of God assumed human nature in order to fill our existence in this world with his life: ‘I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly’ (Jn 10:10). The coming into the world of the Divine Infant Christ grants to us the fullness of unity with the heavenly Father. In the earthly world, full of suffering and discord, we are called upon to be witnesses to his mercy and truth, revealed to us in Jesus Christ. During these holy days I wish you God’s help in your lofty ministry, good health and long years of life. With love in the Lord, +Hilarion Metropolitan of Volokolamsk Chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations http://mospat.ru/en/2012/12/25/news78408/
Patriarch Kirill’s Christmas greetings to the Archbishop of Canterbury 25.12.2012 His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia has sent the following messages of greetings to the head of the Anglican Community Archbishop Justin Welby: I cordially greet you on the occasion of the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. For one to come in touch with the mystery of the Incarnation, one needs to purify one’s mind from vanity and to comprehend with one’s heart the infinitude of God’s love revealed to us in the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ. As St. Basil the Great put it, ‘Like light through clear glass the power of the Godhead shone through that human body for those whose inner eye was pure. Among such may we also be numbered, so that beholding his radiance with unveiled face we too may be transformed from glory to glory.’ God is already with us, but not yet all have opened their spiritual eyes to be able to respond to God’s call of love. Christians, emulating the Angels who brought the good news to the shepherds on the Nativity night, should incessantly bear witness before the world by their word and deed to the God-granted salvation: ‘For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord’ (Lk. 2:11). I wish you and your flock peace, joy, prosperity and God’s abundant grace. With love in the Lord, + KIRILL PATRIARCH OF MOSCOW AND ALL RUSSIA
Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk congratulates newly appointed Archbishop of Canterbury 13.11.2012 To the Right Rev. Justin Welby, Bishop of Durham Dear Brother and Lord Bishop, I would like to extend to you wholehearted congratulations on your election as Head of one of the oldest episcopal chairs founded by St. Augustine of Canterbury in the 7th century. You have been entrusted with the spiritual guidance of the entire Anglican Communion, a unique union of like-minded people, which, however diverse the forms of its existence in the world may be, needs one ‘steward of God’ (Tit. 1:7) the guardian of the faith and witness to the Truth (cf. Jn. 18:37). The Russian Orthodox Church and the Churches of the Anglican Communion are bonded by age-old friendly relations initiated in the 16th century. For centuries, our Churches would preserve good and truly brotherly relations encouraged both by frequent mutual visits and established theological dialogue and certainly by a spirit of respect and love which used to accompany the meetings of our hierarchs, clergy and ordinary believers. Regrettably, the late 20th century and the beginning of the third millennium have brought tangible difficulties in relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Churches of the Anglican Communion. The introduction female priesthood and now episcopate, the blessing of same-sex ‘unions’ and ‘marriages’, the ordination of homosexuals as pastors and bishops – all these innovations are seen by the Orthodox as deviations from the tradition of the Early Church, which increasingly estrange Anglicanism from the Orthodox Church and contribute to a further division of Christendom as a whole. We hope that the voice of the Orthodox Church will be heard by the Church of England and Churches of the Anglican Communion, and good fraternal relationships between us will revive. I wish you God’s help in your important work. ‘May the God of love and peace be with you’ (2 Cor. 13:11). +Hilarion Metropolitan of Volokolamsk Chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations http://mospat.ru/en/2012/11/13/news75434/
Welcome to the forum Servos! I'm just wondering where Orthodox and Anglicans differ. Where do they both differ? Are the differences large or small?
You ask about the differences between Orthodox and Anglicans? We have to yet decide,at least on this board what Anglicanism is? Who is going to speak for us?
At one point (around 1900) the differences were so small that Saint Tikhon recommended that The Episcopal Church in the US be accepted as an Orthodox Church. It never happened, perhaps because of Saint Tikhon's untimely death. There is now an Western Rite of the Orthodox Church that uses an Anglican Book Of Common Prayer with few changes (many fewer than included in the 1979 BCP in the US). Yes, there are theological opinions held by Anglicans that are understood differently by Orthodox. Certainly, the Roman addition to the Nicene Creed is still an embarrassment to the West. Certain Calvinist beliefs are considered heretical by the Orthodox. IMHO, these are even more important than the issues of gender. Anglican understanding of gender roles is the major obvious division between us today. Of course, these issues are also the major divisions WITHIN Anglicanism. The relationship between the patriarchs of the Orthodox Church and the ABC has always been a very cordial one. The Orthodox Churches consider the Church in the UK, before the Roman absorption, to be an Orthodox Church, dating back to the 1st century. To the Orthodox, we are simply brothers and sisters who have lost their way, and so we have.
The major difference between Anglicans and the Orthodox is probably The Triumph of Orthodoxy. It is the celebration, among the Orthodox, of the victory of their Church over Iconoclasts in the 8th century. Since that time, icons have become so central to their divine liturgy, that bowing to and kissing them is the first sign of a Christian's orthodoxy. The centrality of their faith is the theology and practice of icons. We are utterly separate from them in that.
Most prominent figure of Serbian Church in XX century, Bishop Nicholas Velimirovich (1881-1956), influential theological writer and a highly gifted orator, therefore also known in Eastern Christian world as The New Chrysostom, had the similar opinion. Bishop Nicholas doctor's degree in philosophy was prepared at Oxford, the title was Berkeley's Philosophy. Velimirović has visited England lots of times where he held numerous lectures. He studied English and was capable of addressing an audience and making strong impression on the listeners. His success was such, that he has also been awarded a Doctorate of Divinity honoris causa from the University of Cambridge. Also, his presence in England during the years of the I World War did much to strengthen the friendship between the Church of England and the Eastern Orthodox churches in general, and the Serbian Church in particular. His original Christian eloquence made a deep impression and his warm personality won him many friends. As the Bishop of London wrote at the time: He gave a series of notable lectures at St. Margaret's, Westminster, and preached in St. Paul's Cathedral as well as in other cathedrals and churches throughout the England. He also preached in the Episcopal chapel, where his practical discourse attracted many hearers. In the time of bishop Nicholas Velimirovich and later Serbian patriarch Herman (1899-1991) relationship between the Church of Serbia and the Church of England were at the highest level. It was considered as one Church just separated due to the historical reason, but not theological. Maybe should I open a new topic to present to you work of Bishop Nikolaj and less known Orthodoxy in general. As a symbol of that union between Church of Serbia and Church of England Patriarch Herman with the Serbian bishops established custom that every Christmas Anglican Eucharist with Anglican priest is served in Patriarchal Palace (Serbian version of Lambeth Palace) in Belgrade. So, I think somewhere brother Consular said something like: "it is just metropolitan Kallistos Ware who is open to the Anglicans" : ) No, it was Serbian Church also, I think that the relationship between Church of Serbia and Church of England in the first half and middle of XX century was highest peak of Orthodox-Anglican relationship ever. Unfortunately, all this immense work of Church of England and Church of Serbia was crashed in Seventies with ordination of women, and later deteriorate with same-sex marriages and openly homosexual priests. Patriarch Paul (1914-2009) and Synod were under pressure of conservative Orthodox to abolish Anglican Eucharist for Christmass by Anglican priest in Serbian Patriarchate. He did not wanted. Current Patriarch Irenaeus (2009) still keep this custom. Anyhow, I think it is just a matter of time when in Belgrade will come Anglican woman priest, or male priest supporter of same sex marriage, or openly gay priest, and... then... it will be hard to keep all of this in a current level, although, it is already very low when we compare it with the first half of XX century. So, in brief, not just Saint Tikhon, but also the Saint Nikolaj Velimirovich of Serbia, Patriarch Herman of Serbia (untill seventies)... shared the same opinion.
Official web presentation of Anglican Church in Serbia http://www.stmarysbelgrade.org/anglicanorthodox.html Pay attention at this part at the end of an article:
Anglican Church in Serbia, official Facebook presentation http://www.facebook.com/StMarysBelgrade http://www.facebook.com/events/315763121787745/?ref=22
I'm sorry, but our friend and cousin, Consular is in error with the above highlighted statement, the Anglican Church as I have already stated subscribed to the Seventh Ecumenical Council. That is the answer to his point, Traditional Anglicans believe and accept icons and the respect due to the Saints and Holy People of God, through them. The people who don't are not Anglicans as such, but simply a new type of Anglican, Neo Anglicans.
Sir, the 7th ecumenical council was not accepted by the classical Anglican divines as a council on par with Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Chalcedon. If it was so held, I wish you'd show us proof. Jewell seems to disavow Nicaea II as an ecumenical council, as do all the early historians called "Divines" among us. To imagine that the Divines venerated icons to the level which the Orthodox elevate icons - even while the Church of England was smashing all such imagery in the 16th century - is impossible for me. There is a stark difference between memorial imagery (on the one hand), and imagery to which we bow, which we kiss, and which we have mystical theology about (on the other).
My point is that Anglicans are a Western Orthodox Church. That the Church in England holds to the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the First thousand years is simply to amplify my statement. I have pointed out that we have held these from the times of the various councils and through the Reformation! In 1536/1542 and 72 the Convocation affirmed its belief in them,the Ist parliament of Elizabeth fixed the Councils as the base line for theology and to go against them was to put one 's self in the way of heresy! Certainly, every time I read a report of an Anglican orthodox Discussion or Meeting the Seven Councils are affirmed! Why is that? Read the Statement from the 1919 Discussions held in the jerusalem Chamber in Westminster Abbey! Also the Dublin Discussions circa, 1970? Are we to understand that everything Convocation agrees on is simply Retoric and the Communicants or diocese are not responsible for any belief at all? Mind you that has been claimed on these boards within the last few weeks!
Just something I was wondering if anyone on here knows. Icons are seen as beign an Eastern practice. Were icons ever present in Western churches aside from the recent decades?