I am part of the global Anglican communion. I do not have a problem attending a local Anglican church, which also is an Episcopal parish. I did have a 6-month trial at a local ACNA parish. But I left the ACNA parish and returned to the Episcopal parish for the reasons I stated above. In good conscience, every Sunday at the Episcopal church, I kneel and pray to our LORD, read the Sunday lectionary from the NRSV, sing songs from the 1982 Hymnal, absorb the beauty of holiness through the high church music, participate in the Eucharistic liturgy from the BCP 1979, and receive the Eucharist from either a male or female Celebrant (depending upon how it goes at the altar).
That's an interesting question of conscience. I don't think I could do such things for the Anglican Church of Canada, and if I was American, certainly not for TEC. My money might go to the theological studies of female ordinands, or the financing of gay outreach programs.
Yes, I support the national church (TEC) with a portion of my tithes and offerings, which go to fund many national and global Christian ministries. I feel good about this. Within any Christian church organization there are individuals of varying degrees of Christian faith and works. If the folks in the pews in those church organizations stopped giving because of this or that, or one person or another, where would the Christian church be? I have faith that God will use my gifts through the Episcopal organization. I have faith that the Episcopal clergy are the God-appointed servants that God chooses. I pray for them, just as I pray for our local, state, and national government leaders.
Do you have a conception of the Episcopacy and Presbytery that can allow the possibility of a minister appointed by the Church not being a minister appointed by God? I just think we must be very cautious in what we say God declares simply because the Church declares it.
This discussion is getting serious. This is good. Your question comes down to (1) What is the Church? and (2) Why did Christ and the Apostles build the Church? I have faith in the Anglican Communion--a Christian organization that has been around for 500 years, 1000 years, 2000 years! Is the Anglican Communion perfect? No. But I much rather support and be part of the Anglican Communion than any other Religious organization. My spot in the 3rd pew from the front is a very sacred place for me. God blesses me through the Episcopal Anglican Communion Church where I worship and fellowship. I am not worthy to question or abandon this sacred 3rd pew. I hope and pray everyone reading these words feels the same about the place they are in come Sunday morning.
Ah, but the question is, has the TEC by its actions abandoned the Anglican Communion, and, indeed, even the Christian faith?
For me, the American Episcopal Church (TEC) has NOT abandoned the Anglican Communion or the Christian faith. AMEN.
This is good discussion. However, now I have to leave the computer. If you want, you can leave me further comments or questions or send me a personal message. Ephesians 4:1-32
For me, a denomination that approves homosexual ordination and marriage, and blessing of same-sex unions, has left the Christian faith.
I am back again--for a few minutes. Please explain what you mean by "left the Christian faith." Are you saying people who attend a Episcopal church (or a Presbyterian church) are no longer Christian? What then makes a person a Christian? Is it who they associate with for an hour or two on Sunday morning--does that make a person a Christian. I do not think you believe that. So, again, let me ask--What do you mean by "left the Christian faith."
No, definitely not. I'm saying the denomination as a whole is no longer Christian. That's what I am asking here: If one is a Christian, but his/her denomination has departed from the faith, how does one justify staying in same, especially if some of your tithes and offerings are going to the national church? Is there a way to designate what those gifts are used for and/or to whom they go?
Just when did Henry separate from Rome? At no time did Henry separate from Rome, it was the the Bishop of Rome who cut Henry out of the Roman Communion which didn't matter too much because he wasn't even in it! A different thing entirely, all Henry had done was to point out that no bishop has any right to interfere in the affairs of another see! This stems from the Council of Niceae @ 318 AD. True enough about the reasons for the friction, but it goes deeper than you suggest. There had been disputes within the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church regarding authority since Pope Leo 's claim for jurisdiction in about 350 AD. The Papacy claimed wide authority, but there was no proof. The British Church rejected papal claims bout 607 AD. (S. Dinooth's Statement!) False claims such as the forged Donation and Isadorian Decretals were used to bolster Roman efforts. Orthodoxy separated in 1054 AD. And all through the middle ages attempts were made to discipline the Roman Bishops, by means of the Latin Councils of the West, some Pope's were sacked, or imprisoned, others disappeared and promises were made , but broken as soon as the new pontiff got his slippers under the tables. What occasioned the break with England, was when Henry chose to support the Council side ,in his own dispute and came down firmly on the side of tradition! The papacy had never been allowed to build up ecclesiastical authority in England and the Church in England never broke communion with Rome. Rome broke Communion with the Church in England in 1570, when the English Church refused to allow the pope to interfere in politics and when Rome tried to enforce the findings of Trent! It was Rome who went in to schism , not the Anglicans!
Yes, as with any nonprofit organization, you can designate your gift be restricted for specific purposes, instead of the organizations's general fund. With a church, this might be restricting your gift to the building maintenance or mortgage, specific ministries, local staff, utilities, etc. All you do is simply write the restriction (designation) in the memo section of your check and on the outside of the envelope. You also can send restricted gifts to the diocese and national offices. Again, if you want to support certain regional, state, or national programs, but not others, the process is the same for making a restricted gift. It goes without saying that most churches and religious organizations prefer you make contributions to the general fund. It is between you and God whether your offering should be restricted or go to the church's general fund. Whatever you decide to do, be sure to inform the receiving church, diocese, or national offices how you want your gift to be used. Of course, the organization also has the option of refusing your restricted gift. And as a supporter, you have the option of requesting an annual report (letter, brochure) for the specific uses of your gift. I hope this helps.
Nice try and nice twist. However, Thomas More suffered martyrdom for opposing King Henry's separation from the Roman Catholic Church and for his refusal to accept the king as Supreme Head of the Church of England. So, the Anglicans became schismatics from Rome, in which Thomas Cranmer was complicit.
The Church had many Civil Leaders, going back to Constantine (without whom Nicea would be considered invalid), back to David, Solomon, and Moses. So that's not a problem. Secondly, Henry VIII died a Roman Catholic, and his proposed 'reformation' included all roman theology, going from transubstantiation onward. Pretty much nothing changed during his reign, and Thomas Cranmer was powerless to effect any true reforms. Nope, it was the Pope that formally severed ties between the Roman and the English church. That's a fact.
Yes, that helps; thank you for that very good post! Please help my memory with something: Does the Episcopal Church, like the UMC and Presbyterian Church USA, use an apportionment system whereby each local congregation is expected to pay a certain denominationally-determined amount to the national church for various funds, etc., or does the local congregation decide how much it sends to the denomination? I was thinking it was the latter, but I have been out of TEC for a long time, and my memory might not be correct.
The facts are as I have stated: Henry separated the English church from Rome because of marital and progeny issues, made himself head of the English church, and Cranmer was complicit in helping him do it. Thus, the Anglican Church came into being by this superfluous excuse and by political machinations.