Collapsing Angels and Echoes from Eden - is this good Theology?

An Echo of Eden?

Man uses Woman as scapegoat to 'blame shift', for Man's own guilt.

High Priest uses Jesus as scapegoat for 'the people'.

 

At least half of the ACNA still follows these, from the 39 Articles:

Article 6. Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation. Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church. Of the Names and Number…. All the Books of the New Testament, as they are commonly received, we do receive, and account them Canonical.

Article 7. Of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.​

New Testament, as they are commonly received. Obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral.

What was commonly received is that women are not ordained as priestess… nor do women change themselves into men with drugs and surgery and pretend to be a man, husband, and priest… like Cameron Partridge, the female that transitioned to male and is a TEC priestess, I mean priest. It was also commonly received that priests do not bless those that embody disobedience of the Moral Law, whose very identities are counter to Christ. They are openly rebellious to His Divine reminder and call that we are male and female, together being one flesh. And this being of one flesh is impossible outside of God’s order, if you know what it means.

Coming from the desert, the first thing Christ preached was repentance. He said this for all of us. Even them.

Why do you stay in the Epsicople Church, if I may ask?

Anyway, I thought this forum was about “classical orthodoxy”. That’s what is indicated under “Anglican Orthodoxy ” in the community pages. You guys need a new sign on the door. LOL.

 

One should say that. And if what Jesus says matters to a person, they would not oppose what Christ says in Matthew 19:4-6. In July my priest visited Ireland, and so I visited a Reformed Episcopal Church. It was a nice church. No WO. When the priest preached he talked about Matthew 19:4-6 and explained how this impacts gender and gender roles. It was interesting to see how this is about more than just marriage. He did not mix his sermon with demonic echoes.

 

In "spirit and in truth". Yes. You are forgetting the truth part, LOL.

Maybe you see it that way because the Holy Spirit is dealing with you about something. Be that as it may... Adam did not do that, nor do the scriptures teach that. But, yep, I think you are right about what they did to Jesus. You wrote the truth at least on that point, LOL.

 

This very short passage seems to be doing an awful lot of explanatory work here. It may strike one less as reasoned exegesis and more as a culture war ideological stance posing as “theology.” Why attribute an alternative view to a supernatural origin when a wholly natural one will do? Culture and society have changed a great deal over the last two centuries. Things that were common assumptions at one time are now no longer so.

 

Adam was asked the question "“Where are you?”. To which he must have thought to himself "In deep shit with You Lord"? Adam's actual answer was "“I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

To which God relied. "“Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”

Instead of admitting he had 'Eaten from the tree of which God commanded him not to eat', Adam seeks to blame shift the responsibility for his disobedience to God's good advice, THUS:

"“The woman whom you gave to be with me, SHE gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.”

By implicating Eve and God in his crime of disobedience, Adam sought to ameliorate the situation so it looked as if his own disobedience was not really all his own fault. Rather he sought to Blame Eve for making him do it and God for making Eve in the first place and giving her to him.

This must be TRUE because otherwise Adam would not have mentioned Eve or God in his pathetic excusing of his OWN misconduct.

In other words: "SHE made me do it, and if you hadn't given her to me, I wouldn't have sinned".

Those who can't see that still have a great deal of Adam's male 'squirmyness' and 'fear of exposure' left in them.

And the Holy Spirit has indeed dealt with me about many things in my 78 years of life so far. I thank God that it has always been to my infinite benefit. My hope is that you are able to say the same of yourself. And I haven't forgotten what truth is, have no fear of that.
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And before we are accused by hereami of surrendering our allegiance to Christ and whoreing after 'social fashions', the Holy Spirit was promised by Christ to guide ALL future generations of the church into all truth PROGRESSIVELY. The church only started from a position of having ALL TRUTH, in one person, Jesus Christ. Then it degraded slowly into male ignorance, until it learned to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit Christ SENT, to guide. TRADITION is not the only arbiter of holy truth. The church is learning NEW vistas of TRUTH from Jesus Christ all the time and we are not hidebound and hamstrung by 'traditions' of men. And in the case of WO it is DEFINITELY a tradition of only MEN since the end of the 2nd century of the church age, (that's when Christian 'priests' first get any mention in writing').
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Did it take you all of your 78 years to learn how to stretch and spin a fact so well? LOL

Instead of what you wrote, let’s just accept that Adam told God what happened. God repeats the same thing right after that. God did not lie.

No. It’s not true, Tiffy. Put the beer down and think more clearly. Stop repeating the “ear scratching” that you have been listening to from effeminate priests and out of order priestesses in reverse drag. What Adam said in Genesis 3 verse 12 matches what God said in verse 17:

12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”​

17 And to Adam he (GOD) said,“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it’, cursed is the ground…​

What Adam said and what God said matches up. God and Adam agree on the facts.

Obviously you sometimes forget, and forget that you forget. Maybe too much beer, buddy.

You never answered my question. What does this verse mean to you?
2 Corinthians 3:17 - "For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom".

 

If there’s one thing this Forum doesn’t need, it’s another debate on women’s ordination.

 

Hey folks try hereami's video above and then press the forward arrow on the side to see some funny vids.

 

Veronica's quite a girl, isn't she. Be even better if her boss was a man.

 

You are right, Invictus. It does. That's what happens when God talks. Indeed it is theology. And it is actually spiritual warfare, appearing to some as culture war ideology. I attribute these alternative views to supernatural origins because that is where they come from. And they are natural for those opposed to God and unwilling to repent. As far as culture and society changing, it is true that empires rise and empires fall, but what is a sin 2000 years ago or more is still a sin today.

Matthew 19:4-6. Jesus said so on this issue. And now, you do not think it is the crux of the issue. Invictus?

 

The problem is that the text is about divorce.

 

No. It is about marriage, and more. Jesus has this pattern. People talk to him about something... and he goes bigger with it. It's what God does.

 

Verses 4-6 are given as the answer to the question in the preceding verse: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?” Jesus’ answer to this question is thus, effectively, ‘No’.

 

If that were true, why didn't He just say, "no". Is He vain, and likes to hear Himself talk?
But seriously, Jesus is not like the hypocrites or heathens, that love to be seen by others. Jesus would follow Ecclesiastes 5:2, "Let your words be few". His words were not idle talk and more than a "no". Listen to them.

 

One word doth not a demonstration make. Verses 4-5 contain the premises and verse 6 contains the conclusion, as indicated by the term “therefore.”

 

Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendour. But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Cor.3:12-18).

Moses covered his face after he had met with God, because it shone. Ex.34:29-35. Paul then compares the hardness of the minds of those that viewed the face of Moses to that of those who think slavish adherence to the Law of Moses, pernickety rule keeping, rather than real 'circumcision of heart', can enlighten their dull minds to the Glory that is in Christ, through baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is there that we find release from 'the law of sin and death'. Rom. 7:5, Rom. 8:2. 1 Cor.15:54-58. Release from the law of sin and death means FREEDOM from condemnation by God for breaking The Law. ALL LAWS, except the command to "Love one another as I have loved you". THAT is Christ's command to his redeemed disciples in every age. Even "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you". Christ DEMANDS that we BREAK The LAW and rely entirely upon HIM for 'our life' in the Spirit. John 6:53 In effect this means we no longer model our lives according to the strictures of the Law of Moses, but rather by Christ's law of love. So it is no longer any good thinking that keeping faithfully all or any of the rules you can find anywhere and everywhere in the Bible, even if you could, will ever secure you LIFE in the Spirit of Christ. Rule following and rule making for others, is not the same as loving God and loving your neighbour, as Jesus Christ consistently did. You will know Christ's commandments, which as a disciple you must follow, 'to get your due portion', only if you ARE a disciple of Christ, Luke 12:42-48 It is The Spirit who speaks to the churches and tells us what is good and what is evil, John 16:7-11.

So if you are in Christ and he in you, you have freedom from 'The Law of sin and death', and could BREAK The Law, if you wanted or needed to, out of love for Christ, (but of course you wouldn't because those who love Christ keep the Law of Love). You could break the Law of Moses, even to the extent of EATING CHRIST'S FLESH and DRINKING HIS BLOOD, and still receive no condemnation from God, but rather receive eternal life as a result of your lawless cannibalistic behaviour (Gen. 9:4, Lev. 19:26). Your salvation hangs entirely upon Christ, through The Holy Spirit (1 Cor.6:11) telling you the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, wise and foolish deeds. We are not ruled by a book of rules, but by a life giving Spirit. 1 Cor.15:45. 1 Cor.2:15

This is the meat of the Gospel. Heb.5:12.

The law declares men guilty and imprisons them; faith sets men free to enjoy liberty in Christ. But liberty is not license. Freedom in Christ means freedom to produce the fruits of righteousness through a Spirit-led lifestyle. Thus we are not bound by strictures of the Law, such as sabbath keeping rules and circumcision, purification rituals and food restrictions etc, but are obliged to obey any rules which would otherwise violate our love for our neighbour and therefore of God. 1 John 4:20.

Is that what you wanted to know about my understanding of Freedom of the spiritual among the church? 1 Cor.2:15.

It is the character of Jesus that we as disciples follow, not just a book of rules, (though that book tells us a great deal about the character of Jesus). I suggest that you knowing him and Him knowing you, would make a big difference to the way you view scripture and rules. Matt. 7:21-23.

 

And it's not even JUST about divorce. It's about divorce 'Pharisee style', for any reason at all, even if you just don't like her because she won't shut up in church.
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It is an interesting text, especially when compared with its parallels in the other Synoptics.