I find all this very sad. Does it make you happy to talk and think of hell? I have a feeling that some of you enjoy the idea of other's damnation - while being sure, that you yourselves get saved.
The Lord Jesus spoke more of hell than he did of heaven. What does that tell you? Perhaps Christ knew our tendencies better than we do ourselves, and warns us appropriately. As to being happy...maybe "happiness" isn't the point. We aren't called to be happy; we are called to be like Christ. Consider Matt. 7:13-14:
Saint Paul says, he needs to reign in his own sins, because it’s very possible that his teachings may save others yet he himself will be damned nevertheless. That applies to all of us here. I could give in to my sins and fall away, while someone else here could embrace repentance and humility and thus be saved over me. I haven’t seen anyone here proudly boast that they will be saved. Indeed we recognize that proud boasting is actually one of the more common signs of a reprobate soul. We dare not boast or be prideful! We try to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling”.
No. All humans should desire salvation and a right relationship with God, but no ordinary human deserves it. God's grace is unmerited, and there is no way we could merit or deserve it. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one (Romans 3:10). Only by God's grace are we given His own perfect righteousness, and that comes to us only through faith in Jesus' redemptive sacrifice. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mark 16:16). The default condition of a human is that he is lost in his sins and without saving grace. Jesus suffered, died, and rose from the dead so that He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already (John 3:18).
if gospel is the “good news,” then what out there is the “bad news” to match it? what is the gospel trying to fix?
I enjoy the idea of people coming to faith in Christ. It saddens me when people refuse to trust in God and fail to receive His gift of saving grace. The realization that they are in danger of suffering in the lake of fire, separated from God for all eternity, propels me to urge them toward faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus felt the same way, and He commissioned His disciples (us, the believers) to communicate this news to others. The Gospel is like a coin in that it has two sides. One side is the promise of reward if one is willing and obedient to do what God has said: believe. The other side is the promise of punishment if one is not willing and obedient to believe God. Those who never trust God in this life, when they come face to face with Him in the afterlife, will be so convicted of their unrepentant sinfulness that they will want to flee, screaming, from His perfect holiness. They will have condemned themselves and it will be too late to do anything about it.
Silvan, if I could assume a little, it seems to me that a large part of your discomfort here is that accepting such a teaching would fundamentally change your perception of God. The God you recognise is a a loving one, who wants to spend every moment of eternity with his people and wants none to suffer. You perceive our God as a vindictive and arbitrary one, who relishes in damning souls. Perhaps this verse might help: "This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." ~ 1 Timothy 2.3-4 God, who damns most people, suffers! He does not want to damn any of us, he wants us all to be saved. Every sin we make He stands beside us wounded. And when we are damned He weeps. His purest and more recognisable desire, wherever we see Him in nature or scripture, is to be with us. It is not God going out of his way to damn others, it is us who reject him, and invite damnation. We choose to sin, and we are all sinners. He has made Himself man, died for our sins and given us the Word. And yet still, we reject him, dismiss him, add to him, take away from him. He tells us exactly who he is in scripture and we still say "no, no, no I don't believe in you. I believe in this other God I'd rather worship, because I just want this to be too impactful on my material enjoyment", and we ignore whole books of the Bible that make us uncomfortable, skipping over their troves of knowledge, instead of studying them, understanding them and accepting them. "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ." - Romans 10.17. A faith not based in God's word is not faith as God sees it. If we are wrong, show us the verse that demonstrates we are born saved.
My understanding is that God neither suffers nor damns. The punishment that comes to us is self-inflicted.
If God doesn't damn us, who passes the judgement? I think the question of if God suffers is deep enough that delving into it would derail this thread beyond recovery, and it's only just begun - so I'll dodge that one for now.
Let me repeat: I have a feeling that some of you enjoy the idea of other's damnation - while being sure, that you yourselves get saved. It's not a new idea. And it's not a good idea.
In this thread and many other threads you're exceptionally quick to interpret members of this forums posts as personal attacks in the least charitable way, and you consistently take strong offence. Yet, you seem to be quite okay with using statements like "some of you seem to enjoy the ideas of others damnation" without regard for how someone else might take that statement, and then when we clarify that none of us are comfortable with the idea you simply repeat it instead of engaging with anyone's responses. Some have said it's a difficult teaching, there's uncertainty, it's unpleasant, it's hard, etc. No one has given any reason to think they enjoy the idea of someone else's damnation. Why do you feel the need to project such a horrible caricature on people you disagree with? You have had scripture quoted at you that it is improper to presume you are blameless, and those that do will be brought low. You were offended someone would say something like that to you and then in the next breath you turn around and assert others in this thread must be sure they will be saved. No one in this thread has suggested something like that. If it is when someone says it to you, consider not doing the same back to someone else, and then repeat it when they politely respond why that's not the case. If it's an incorrect idea, quote the verse.
Jesus preached 'Gehenna' fire sermons. He might have mentioned 'Sheol' a few times but since there is not so much 'fire' there, just lonely darkness, 'sheol' just meant 'the grave'. I think you will find that The Lord Jesus never mentioned 'Hell' throughout his entire ministry, at least not according to anything we have recorded for us in scripture. He referred to Gehenna on numerous occasions but that could easily be explained by those who do not see God or His Messiah as a vengeful torturer, as warnings by Jesus Christ to avoid the type of behaviour which would qualify sinners as being fit only for throwing on a burning rubbish tip, not fit for the Kingdom of God, which he declared open to all who were willing to abide by God's acceptable standards of conduct. It is right that Jesus preached little about 'Heaven', as a concept of the afterlife. He preached mostly about entering the Kingdom of God right here on Earth, and continuing in it even after physcal death. He didn't promise 'pie in the the sky when we die', he promised 'Bread and wine on our plate while we wait' and warned against turning down the gifts of God by grasping, greedy selfishness. If Jesus had preached 'Tartarus' fire or 'Hades' fire sermons he would have been considered a Pagan Gentile by his hearers, so he never used those descriptions of what many of WE have come to think he meant by 'Hell'. .
Yes, really not the right way round at all. Anyone at all is free to consider themselves a miserable sinner if that is what makes them happy. As for everyone else around them, they are icons of Christ who is himself the Icon of the Living God. It may therefore be safer to treat them accordingly.
Some of what I read here about Damnation and Salvation does not sound typically Anglican to me. It reminds me more of Calvin. But then I am not a professional theologian. What do others say about this topic?