Where does the Anglican church stand regarding Hell.

Does the Church of England believe that God sends people to Hell if they are non-believers? If not what happens to them? What is the official position of the church, There seems to be some conflicting regarding where the church stands.

 

Apart from the numerous readings from Scripture and Collects in the 1662 BCP which teach us about hell and exhort everyone to fear it, the BCP also affirms the Athanasian Creed and requires it to be read at least once a year. In that ancient creed we read the following:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence.

... He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

... He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

 

That is the default position, but notice nothing is said concerning a 'rapture' or escape from judgement which will still be, according to our works. We do not escape the judgment, far from it, we escape only the sentence to everlastingly perish, and will receive everlasting life if attaining to it, only through the merits of Jesus Christ, if we keep the faith, which is constant obedience to his teaching and reliance upon his grace.

However, the Church of England no longer offers lurid descriptions of Hell, as the church was inclined to do in medieval times, because they do not generally accord with the scriptures and are just the frantic imaginings of cruel and distorted human minds. What we have in scripture is sufficient to inform us it is no pleasant experience and should be avoided by the power of The Atonement of Jesus Christ and a resolutely 'godly, righteous and sober life'.

Suffice it to say that if we are not with God and He with us, then everywhere else would be hell because God is ALL in ALL and to be separated from God would be separation from the only 'Life' that will then exist. So theoretically we could say that hell does not exist, neither does anyone unfortunate enough to have been consigned there along with the devil, the beast and any his subsequently unredeemed rebellious angels. Rev.20:1-14. They will be perishing everlastingly.

It is unclear though whether God wills this 'separation' or whether it is a natural consquence of denying the only and ultimate reality of God's Almighty Sovereignty. I'm not at all sure that the consequences can be blamed on God. In fact I'm pretty certain God has done everything possible to avoid this outcome for as many as possible. Those who enter this state of being will have do so with such resolute determination that even Almighty God would not stand in their way.
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It is worth noting that the Anglican church looks to the Scriptures, first and foremost, for its doctrine. In the word of God we find many statements on this subject. For example:

John 3:14-18 -- And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36-- He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mark 16:15-16-- Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 25:46-- And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2Thessalonians 1:7-9-- And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rev 14:11-12-- And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Matthew 13:41-- The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I don't think it's possible to read these passages and legitimately conclude that there is no hell. The fact is, people send themselves to hell by their unbelief or their life choices. God is "not willing that any should perish," but He also does not override the free will of a person and force Himself upon them. If a human being does not through faith receive God's unmerited gift of grace, the time will come what that person must come face to face with Almighty God the Judge, and the person will be unable to remain in God's holy, perfect Presence; the unredeemed sinner will go anywhere to be away from that Presence which makes him acutely conscious of his own iniquity. There will be one place left where that person can be away from the convicting Presence and Power of God, and that place will be the lake of fire.

 

Does this mean I am living in Hell at the moment? If so I don't think this statement stacks up.

Well at least personally for me I am quite happy with life.

 

A Church of England commission has rejected the idea of hell as a place of fire, pitchforks and screams of unending agony, describing it instead as annihilation for all who reject the love of God.
``There are many reasons for this change, but amongst them have been the moral protest from both within and without the Christian faith against a religion of fear, and a growing sense that the picture of a God who consigned millions to eternal torment was far removed from the revelation of God’s love in Christ,″ the report said.

``Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being.″



Is this now the doctrine of the C of E.???? I believe this was written approx 1995 by The Right Rev Tom Wright

 

You are currently living under 'Grace', what you do with that is your own affair. I did say: "everywhere else would be hell because God is ALL in ALL and to be separated from God would be separation from the only 'Life' that will then exist". 1 Cor.15:28. Grace will still perhaps be available for you, but when you know God as you are now known by him, repentance may be possible, (though not guaranteed in scripture, after death), but you will have foregone any opportunity to make amends for your deeds upon earth. In fact for some of them, for various reasons, it is already too late for you to make amends. I hope you don't imagine that you have nothing whatever to be ashamed of. That would be a truly psychopathic summing up from any truly honest human self examination. Those who are forgiven much love much, "Anglican Agnostic, I have somewhat to say unto thee". Luke 7:40-50. Those who have no conscience pangs have nothing much to look forward to and haven't ever really 'lived'. Luke 15:25-32. Psychopaths are truly the walking dead. Never marry one.

So am I, can't get enough of it! Jesus came that we should have it and enjoy it by sharing the experience with others. John.10:10. The last thing Jesus would ever ask of you is that you become 'religious'.

Religion is a deadly thing which quenches the Spirit.
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I don't think a statement issued by some commission can in any way be binding upon the Church of England or serve to change orthodox doctrine. It has all the force and effect of an opinion piece on a newspaper's editorial page (that is, none).

 

N T. Wright, despite his early and helpful works on the historicity of Jesus, has become very well known for extremely heterodox statements on most aspects of Anglican theology, and so I wouldn't consult him on anything that had to do with the doctrine or any kind of orthodox viewpoint.

That being said, the Church of England is currently held captive in the clutches of heterodox prelates (and their secular overlords), so you will not hear strong affirmations of (their own) prior historic orthodoxy from them. In fact there have been 20-30 decades of them increasingly speaking heresy on the very matters they just two generations ago would have affirmed in one voice with harmony with their own patrimony, and the ancient Church. The Church of England is captive, and England has become a secular wasteland which needs to be re-evangelized all over again (thankfully that's happening).

 

You both seem to be assuming that a commission of The Church of England, (not just nominally Anglican), has issued a statement on the doctrine of Hell without studying the scriptures and justifying their conclusions according to what the scriptures actually tell us about the conditions there and the nature of its existence. I think you will find that the Church of England is not a great champion of secular thought when issuing theological pronouncements.

Enthusiastic adherents of Hell and its tortures and cruelties on the other hand seem to claim 'orthodoxy' for their lurid medieval theological nonsenses without recourse to any actual scriptural support for their imaginative pictures of hell, which seem more to be influenced by the artwork of Hironymus Bosch than on actual scripture, particularly the teachings of Our Lord from whom most of the reliable scriptural evidence actually comes.

Perhaps, instead of dissing those who have examined closely the actual scriptural evidence upon which the Anglican church's doctrine is based, it would be helpful if the actual doctrines concerned could be quoted and examined to see how they actually accord with the church's current understanding of the scripture.

I think we might have moved on a little from the beautiful lurid, (and rather amusing), restored "Final Judgment", portrayals on the walls of some C of E churches here in the UK, (which though absent in the USA, for obvious historical reasons, are apparently still 'doctrinally' influential in the minds of fundamentalists over there).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2xkgxzcfmcjy46/aaa.png?dl=0

 

I had considerable difficulty trying to post an image in my previous post. Couldn't even edit out abortive attempts. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

My wife committed suicide. A certain wannabe Old Catholic bishop contacted me a couple of days after the incident to inform me he was going to pray for her soul in purgatory. At least he didn't condemn her to Hell, I suppose. He's blocked these days.

 

Rom.15:18:21. For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ; and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation, but as it is written,

“Those who have never been told of him will see,
and those who have never heard will understand.” Isaiah 52:15.

This is directly from the famous 'Suffering Servant' passages which prophetically refer to Jesus Christ The Messiah and his Gospel of God's Reconciliation.

There is a world of difference between non-believers, i.e. those who have not heard because they have never been told, and un-believers who have been told, have heard and yet refused to believe, (because they prefer darkness in which to continue to do their nefarious deeds).

There will be no one who has passed beyond this life who 'never having been told' will 'not understand' the salvation that has been won for them through Jesus Christ. All will know and understand what he has done for us all.

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Rev.5:1-14.

If after that revelation of the truth a few still persist in their preference for darkness, darkness will be exactly what they get. Matt.8:10-12, Matt.22:12-14, Matt.25:24-30.

Hell, it seems from this, will have a sparse population.
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I think the OP was getting at is it ok to be some form of universalist. I would say, according to the council's, that one can hope for universalism but it can't be taught dogmatically.

 

By His own words, Jesus our Redeemer conveyed that he is not a universalist. His words bear repeating:

John 3:18 -- He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36-- He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mark 16:15-16-- Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 13:41-- The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 13:27-28-- But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Rev 21:7-8-- He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

A person can be a wishful-thinking universalist and still be redeemed, since our salvation does not depend upon our having a perfect grasp of all doctrines.

 

This is splitting hairs I know, because John's word would be enough to make this truth, but can we be certain that this statement is 'By Jesus' own words, as you imply? There may have been quotation marks intended after verse 15 but the Greek language does not have them, so we don't know if these were the exact words of Jesus or John's commentary on what Jesus had just said at John 3:10-15.

As I said before, non-belief is not at all the same as un-belief. Non-belief is ignorance. We are all ignorant until informed. Rom.10:14 Un-belief is deliberate rebellion against The Truth. That requires knowlegde, understanding and a decision against God's Grace.

This is about sorting wheat from chaff from within the Kingdom of God, i.e. the visible church. Salvation is universal, in that Christ died once, and for all, but the sorting goes on after death and it is the angels that do the sorting, not us. Matt.13:47-50

This is a saying addressed to people who were convinced of their salvation and the damnation of the gentile nations. Something like this spirit is now within the church, but it will be rooted out and dealt with by angels, not by us. Matt.13:36-52.

And a 'Hell Fire' Preacher with a 'Stick and Carrot' Gospel can still be redeemed even though he may not have a sure grasp on God's Grace or a full understanding of the Message of Reconciliation. 2 Cor.5:19.
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A number of Anglicans, myself included, do not see hell as a place of eternal punishment, but a place of temporal purgation. I rarely come across christian folks, even Christian Universalists, who disbelieve in hell. Rather they differ over the purpose and length of one's stay.

 

How do you differentiate that idea from the Anglican doctrine on purgatory (Article 22)? In what way is the English purgatory different from the Romish purgatory?

Do you think Satan will someday get out of the 'penalty box' of purgation?

 

I think Satan and his non repentant angels and any who follow him, will suffer the same fate as both death and hell, they will be no more. Revelation 21:4. Revelation 20:14 What say you?
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I'm asking Lowly Layman what he thinks. I already had a pretty good idea of what you think, Tiffy.