How to defend the belief only men should be ordained?

This sounds almost correct to me, provided you reject the idea that anyone is foreordained to damnation; of course, some Anglicans might be Calvinists and adhere to such a scheme of predestination, but I myself side with the Arminians, and John Wesley, on this point.

From a purely Anglican perspective that seems viable, but as an Arminian, while I do not reject Soli Deo Gloria, neither can I state that an individual’s disposition is irrelevant to their free choice as to whether or not to accept the Gospel, a choice enabled by the Holy Spirit. In addition, I believe that ascetic labour, charity and so on is important; this is not works righteousness but rather evidence of a living faith as per the Epistle of St. James. This process contributes to Theosis, or what John Wesley called Entire Sanctification, and I think it very important, because it is commanded of us, without being required of us (we cannot be perfect in our fallen state, but we are commanded by our Lord to be perfect, therefore, with the grace of the Holy Spirit, as we mature, we move towards greater perfection and holiness, and this helps those around us).

 

Every person, or every Christian? The non-Christian does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, after all.

 

I agree that when the Holy Spirit comes to live inside the believer, He makes all the difference in the person's potential ability to perceive spiritual truths.

At the same time, learning to accurately hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to us is a life-long journey, and some grow in their sensitivity to the Spirit's gentle leading at a far different rate than others.

Some of your earlier posts sounded to me as if you were saying, more or less, 'I've heard from the Holy Spirit, and therefore I must be right.' I may or may not have perceived them correctly, but if correctly then it seemed hubristic and that led to the tone of my responses; after all, we all can 'miss it' sometimes when we think we've heard from God, and that is why judging what we think we've heard by the written Word is so important and valuable in our lives. But if I got the wrong impression, I apologize.

 

That is true, but they still benefit by the grace of the Holy Spirit without which it would be impossible to convert to Christianity. It is this grace which facilitates evangelization. A person then receives the Holy Spirit; how this happens is not uniformly agreed, but I think it fair to say that confirmation or chrismation is the “seal of the Holy Spirit” received when a person repents and turns towards Christ.

Also, the early Church and the Eastern churches have tended to regard catechumens awaiting baptism as saved; for example, an Eastern Christian who dies a catechumen os entitled to an Orthodox funeral. Conversely a baptized Orthodox who voluntarily committed suicide not due to mental illness or who opted voluntarily to be cremated would be denied a full funeral and would receive only the Trisagion prayers. This does not apply if the person is mentally ill or is required to be cremated, or if their body is destroyed, for example, in a fire or by an explosion.

 

At the very least every Christian. Among Christians, trying to invoke the Holy Ghost as a source of extra knowledge cannot be used in interpreting correct doctrine. It is wrong to say, as you put it, "I've heard from the Holy Spirit, and therefore I must be right."

 

Apology accepted and gratefully received. When we are truly living 'in the Spirit', we see all things differently than that time before we became the Spirit's dwelling place. I agree that does not make us right in everything we think we understand, but scriptural interpretation of truth is a spiritual matter, because it was through the Spirit that the scripture was delivered to us and through the Spirit that it must be discerned. 2 Peter 1:19-21. What applied in the making of it also applies in the reading and understanding of it.

A good Christian understands scripture as a good tradesman knows how to correctly use his tools, not abusing them by misuse. 2 Tim.3:16-17.
.

 

Indeed so, at least among Christians of the Apostolic, Nicene faith. If someone is heterodox or heretical, I would propose that we would be rash to assume any promptings they receive are actually “of the spirit.”

 

That might depend on how well their interpretaton of such doctrine can be supported, endorsed or refuted through examining the scriptures afresh. Article 20 would apply both to ascertain whether the doctrine be adopted by the church or required of the believer.

The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

It is perfectly possible for the people in the pew to entertain wrong ideas and have incorrect understandings without losing salvation.

I was this morning, after reciting the Nicene Creed, musing upon one common error of understanding of its wording.

It is commonly thought that it says that it was God the Father that 'made all things'. We believe in one God, who made everything.

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, (this is all about Jesus)
the only Son of God, (still all about Jesus)
eternally begotten of the Father, (still all about Jesus)
God from God, Light from Light, (still all about Jesus)
true God from True God, (still all about Jesus)
begotten, not made, (still all about Jesus)
of one being with the Father; (still all about Jesus Emphasising that Christ and the Father are one being.)
through him all things were made. (still all about Jesus) John 1:1-3.
For us and our salvation he came down from heaven,
and was incarnate . . . . .etc. (even yet still all about Jesus).

The Jehova's Witness Bible even tries to change the scripture to read "The Word was 'a' God" instead of The Word was God and the notion that God the Father created everything is widely believed in spite of the fact that the Nicene Creed and John's Gospel says it was Jesus that made "all that is, [both] seen and unseen".

So it is very easy for life long believers to be quite wrong in their assumptions, yet still perfectly 'saved'.
.

 

There is a difference between ignorance due to bad catechesis and heresy.

 

Of course, but I don't think questioning or wanting to see the scriptural foundation, (whatever basis that may be considered to be), for an exclusively all male priesthood can be classed as heresy. Heresy is more to do with Christology, Soteriology and Ethics probably. That is why, according to the rules of this website that scriptural basis is permitted to be discussed and debated provided a scriptural case for female inclusion in a 'Christian' Priesthood is not promoted. Which kind of makes it a bit of a one sided debate but there you are.
.

 

So no response to my request, Tiffy?

 

Objection, your honor! Badgering the witness...

 

I've looked back carefully through your posts and can see many questions, challenges, refutations and rebuttals but no sentence bearing the distinctive characteristics of a 'request' i.e. containing the word 'please' or some similar petionary phrase.

If I have missed something I apologise.

Can you elucidate please by repeating the actual 'request', so that we can all know what you think it was?

You have me guessing here but could perhaps "*Here*" have been my answer to what you are thinking was a 'request'?
.

 

I mean this one:

 

One can receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, yet not be receptive to His inspiration. Otherwise, every Christian would understand perfectly.

I think the vast majority of Christians go through life with their spiritual 'rabbit ear antennas' fully retracted.

 

Eph. 1:17 and "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." 2 Pet.1:5-9.

Even Christian believer's knowledge is imperfect. We have enough grace and light to understand The Gospel, but only those who ask, seek, knock and search will receive knowledge above and beyond that which is necessary for their salvation. That is why the church still needs 'Teachers' and 'disciples'. If everyone already knew everthing necessary for the church, then the church would be perfect, full of perfect people who know everything. but it is not, yet. Only God knows everything but believers know more essentials of salvation than do nonbelievers. That information is what the Holy Spirit comes to provide if you seek it in humility.
.

 

But, any Christian who commits themselves to prayer and humility can receive this knowledge, in your theology, right? Because our Lord indicated that this information was universally accessible to those who truly sought it in Matthew 7:7, and this verse serves as a doctrinal bulwark against Gnosticism:

“7 Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you.

8 For the person who asks receives, the person who searches finds, and the door will be opened to the person who knocks.

9 Who among you, when her child asks her for bread, will give the child a stone,

10 or when the child asks for a fish, will give a snake?

11 If you, then, wicked though you are, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask him!”

The corrupted or fabricated sayings text known as the “Gospel of Thomas” opens with the quintessential Gnostic doctrine, an arrogant and elitist worldview built upon salvation through hidden knowledge accessible only to a select few; thus let us compare the Truth in Matthew 7:7 with the dazzling display of delusion that is (apoc.) Thomas n:0-n:3

0 “These are the veiled sayings which the living Jesus spoke and Judas, the Twin, Thomas wrote them down.

1 1 And he said:
“Whoever finds the meaning of these sayings will not experience death.”

2 1 Jesus said: “Let the one who seeks continue seeking until he finds. 2 And when that one finds he will be disturbed, and once that one is disturbed he will become awed, and will rule as a king over the all.”

3 1 Jesus said: “If those who lead you proclaim to you: ‘The realm is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will enter before you. If they proclaim to you: ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will enter before you. 2 Rather, the realm is within you and outside of you. 3 When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the Living Father. 4 If, however, you do not come to know yourselves, then you dwell in poverty and you are the poverty.”

This particular text is sourced from from Hal Taussig’s “A New New Testament”, which consciously seeks to avoid Gnostic terminology like “Pleroma”, but this is good, because in his effort to make “Thomas” look not like a heretical exploitation stuffing words in the mouth of the Apostle to the India and the East, but authentic Christian doctrine, Hal Taussig shows us what a crypto-Gnostic argument will look like; for further clarity, I sourced The Gospel According to Matthew from the same source, which in turn was using the Open English Bible.

By the way, it is distressing yet unsurprising to consider that a deceased Episcopalian priest, a Fr. Boucher, quoted from a Gnostic “gospel” subsequently included in Taussig’s ridiculous anthology of apostasy, “The Gospel of Mary”, to support an argument he put forward in an liberal faux-Anglican magazine for the removal of the Creeds from the Liturgy. You just can’t make this stuff up.

 

It says of our Lord, “By whom all things were made,” but the unoriginate font of this creation that begat our Lord before all Ages, before Time existed, is the Father, who is the source of the Godhood, who begets the Son and spirates the Spirit.

 

Of course! God is generous and liberal with his giving. If we lack wisdom, we should ask of God. James 1:5. Anything we do not have is lacking because of our own unfitness to receive it. If we don't ask, because we think we already know, then knowledge of the deeper things of the faith will evade us. We will remain on a milk diet and never move on to ballanced quisine. 1 Cor.3:2, Heb.5:12-14.
.

 

Very good.