What position does Anglicanism traditionally have on self-torture to test faith?

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by DarthJupiter, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. DarthJupiter

    DarthJupiter New Member

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    Since a post I read pretty much sums up the details of my question and is why I'm asking this, I'm quoting it.

    As a former Roman Catholic I did flagellate myself in the past albeit not with a sharp whip but with a cato9 safe rope with several knots in the end and I have fasted before. So I am wondering what is the Anglican communion's position on mortification acts especially those where you're directly hitting yourself or other self tortures? Is at least fasting OK since Reformed Christianity and Lutheranism accepts it and even encourages it?
     
  2. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Hello Darth,

    I all my years of studying Anglicanism I have never heard of torturing oneself or practicing self-mortification. I suppose it's possible that some Anglican monastics might engage in it, but monasticism is a recent innovation in Anglicanism any way. Of course, fasting is advocated in the Prayer Book, and the Ember Days and Rogation Days have traditionally been days of fasting and prayer. Self-flagellation, as far as I know, is mainly a Roman Catholic practice, though apparently Luther approved of it as well. I have never heard of Anglicans practicing it.
     
  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I looked into it some more and found this reference in a Wikipedia article, but I had never heard of it before:

    "Yates, Nigel (1999). Anglican Ritualism in Victorian Britain, 1830-1910. Oxford University Press. p. 60. ISBN 9780198269892. Self-flagellation with a small scourge, known as a discipline, became quite common in Tractarian circles and was practiced by Gladstone among others."

    Even if true, it was an innovation on the part of any Tractarian who practiced it.
     
  4. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    We can distinguish between 'classical' self-mortification (OT/NT/patristic period), and 'modern innovations' (medieval).

    Things like whipping yourself are clearly modern innovations. No Old Testament prophets, NT Apostles, or Church Fathers, have engaged in it. On the other hand things like fasting, uncomfortable clothing (hair shirts etc), have a prominent presence. John the Baptist famously wore a hair shirt, as recorded in the New Testament. The Old Testament prophets wore them. Fasting was very prevalent.

    The traditional Anglican doctrine on self-mortification follows the classical line of thought. We have fasting directly in the Prayer Book. When the Founding Fathers would call for times of great crisis and prayer, they called for the whole nation to fast.
     
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  5. Symphorian

    Symphorian Well-Known Member

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    I have a copy of this book. The above reference is a foot note to a passage regarding the Tractarian Rector of Elton, Huntingdonshire who was appointed in 1843.

    "Before long a change began to pass over the Rector's household. Little by little the men servants became a sort of Brotherhood. There were spiritual exercises and readings from the lives of the saints. There was meditation, reading, visiting the sick. There were midnight prayer meetings when an hour was spent in reading the psalter. On the eves of feasts the devotions were prolonged to three hours. As time went on the discipline (small scourge) was introduced on Fridays and in Lent. Other young men joined in the exercises. They began to think of the Rectory as their 'monastery' and themselves as monks."
     
  6. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

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    It would probably fall under Article XIV of the Articles of Religion: It is a useless work and Christ has already atoned.

    VOLUNTARY Works besides, over, and above, God's Commandments, which they call Works of Supererogation, cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety: for by them men do declare, that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do, but that they do more for his sake, than of bounden duty is required: whereas Christ saith plainly, When ye have done all that are commanded to you, say, We are unprofitable servants.
     
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  7. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Self torture in not of God. Fasting has been addressed already.

    Though I do have to admit to thinking Vestry meetings may fall under self flagellation!

    Fr. Brown
     
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  8. Fidei Defensor

    Fidei Defensor Active Member

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    St. Paul’s words on self-flagellation and harshness to the body:

    “Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
    21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
    22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
    23 Such regulations (man-made religion ESV) indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their asceticism, self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” (Colossians 2:20-23)