Episcopal Church 77th General Convention News Thread

Sad, but true.

These new developments will definitely affect the way Rome and the Orthodox view TEC. It won't be favorable and understandadly so.

Agreed.

Yes, we need prayers from all who are willing. What affects one part of Christendom affects all of Christendom.

 

The latest on the "Open Table" nonsense

Sounds like the bishops weren't impressed with this resolution. It looks like it won't pass. In the House of Deputies, 77% of laity and 64% of clergy supported it, though. Even if they didn't get the bishops on board this time, those are ominous numbers. This will be back with a vengeance in 3 years. And the bishops' version kept the "normative" language, leaving open the required loopholes.

After a week of bad news, any win feels like a good win. However, I don't think that this is a win at all. How could this seriously have been an issue? The overwhelming support for it, coupled with the fact that it will continue to be practiced in many places, shows that we are moving away from being a sacramental church.

 

The House of Deputies showing their dedication to the task of theology.

 

People gasp for all kinds of reasons. Some for surprise about what is written. Some for surprise that someone is surprised about what was written. I shall not try to interpret a gasp.

 

It is, indeed.

seeking.IAM,
That is a charitable way of looking at things, which is always appreciated.

 

Yikes. . . . .The Youth Delegation must be "youthful" at heart.

 

Adam,
I read this; and I agree with you. I don't think this is the end of it.

Didn't the same-sex ordinations inch their way in by similar means?

 

They deserve a generous pastoral response.

 

I have to say that I agree with the concern expressed in this thread about diminishing the importance of Baptism. I am not familiar with any reason why a pastoral response/economia would be needed to allow someone to commune that hasn't been baptized. I believe a blessing is more than sufficient.

That being said I do think there is an interesting passage in Acts 10:44-48
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."

To me this seems as if these gentiles received Confirmation before Baptism. I don't think it changes the fact the Baptism should come first I think this was just the way the Holy Spirit made it abundantly clear that Baptism is for all people.

 

Exactly right.

 

Indeed. I'm one of those "youthful" at heart.

I love Tommy Lee!

 

Robert,
I can appreciate your point of view.

At the same time, the Sacraments are instruments of Grace, chosen by God. Baptism is the means, chosen by God, through which our sins are forgiven and through which we enter into Covenant with God and become part of God's people, the Mystical body of Christ. If one is able to come to the Communion Rail, one is able to come to the Baptismal Font.

The Sacrament of Marriage is already in serious jeopardy. Now Baptism. What is next?

Before long, TEC will be like the Baptist Church I left, but without the expectation of living a moral life.

 

Anna,

I agree wholeheartedly. Like I said I have not heard of any valid reason to allow a unbaptized to receive communion under any circumstance. For example if someone was in danger of dying and they expressed an interest in becomeing a Christian my first response would be Baptism.

 

Robert,
I agree.

I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your previous post. It's been a long day.

 

Yes, and I also want those Last Rites when my time comes, if at all possible.

 

Here is the BUDGET 2013 – 2015 THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH

With all that is happening; I want to review the budget carefully to see where the money is going. I'm sure others will want to do the same.

 

For all the kerfuffle in this thread, what can (all of you?) individual Episcopalians do? You're not part of the official hierarchy, nor are you "Laity" Leaders of the Convention. Reviewing budgets... can you send in your conclusions to bishops and the like? More importantly, will they listen?

Ironic that the Episcopal Church of the US has the least-dubious orders according to Rome, given all the Eastern bishops who went about ordaining Episcopal ministers in the 19th century. This just goes to show that apostolic succession is no guarantee of orthodoxy, and that even the loftiest bishop needs to humble himself firmly before the Lord Jesus Christ, and we laity need to do the same, in constant prayer for our leaders, that they actually follow the Holy Spirit Who is entrusted to them.

 

Oh wow. Thanks for finding that. I'm about to read our rector's response to GC, and then it's time to examine the budget.

 

Thanks to all of you who kept this thread updated with GC77 news!

Adam, I think your post sums it up pretty well. The fact that those parishes who offer "open communion" will be not be punished or corrected in the slightest is pretty telling. It's only a matter of time (until the next GC) before open communion is the official way of TEC. To me, this was the most disheartening development of the whole GC. I'm shocked at the amount of support open communion has! Basically, we are coming to a point where the sacraments will be all for "show" and nothing will be required. Is this church still Anglican? Perhaps "officially," but certainly not theologically. CORRECTION-Resolution C029-Open Table Communion failed to pass. The last sentence of the resolution was removed by the HOB and sent back to the HOD. However, the HOD did not have time to vote on it again, meaning that the whole thing failed. All that said, most think that this issue will be back in full force in 3 years at the next GC.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/43920/

A couple more thoughts:

1. The Prayer Book means nothing to those running TEC. Most of these resolutions are illegal and should never have gotten off the ground (same sex blessings, open communion).

2. Trangenders, transexuals, or those who consider themselves neither gender can officially run nurseries, teach Sunday school, become preists, and serve in a full capacity in any position. Can you imagine a cross dresser running a nursery in Church? Coming to an Episcopal Church near you! Just crazy, even by TEC standards.

3. Resolutions were passed supporting labor unions, making churches a "gun free" zone, and all the other talking points of very far left political progressives. The "gun free" idea is not necessarily bad, afterall, the Orthodox and other Churches are "gun free" zones, however, the cynic in me sees this as trying to appease anti-gun lobby nutcases.

4. What hope is there left for a return to orthodoxy after a convention like this? I think it's apparent that those running this ship do not care about membership, church closings, or attendance figures. They are going to ride this political agenda until they can't. Will the next Archbishop of Canterbury get tough with TEC?

5. God bless the Diocese and Bishop of South Carolina for walking out on the General Convention. I don't know how they made it as long as they did.

6. Bishop Gene Robinson reported on his twitter that same sex blessings passed in the house of bishops 111 to 41. I'm actually surprised that many voted no.

 

They might as well just move to Sweden at this point.

Do not despair, friend. During the Arian controversy (we might even call it the Arian War) it is estimated that at least 60-70% of all bishops in the entire world had become Arians. A tiny minority were led by heroes such as Ambrose of Milan and Athanasius of Alexandria. God triumphed through them, so He may triumph through people such as yourself.

God will not be mocked forever; His strong right hand and His outstretched arm surround us ever more in Jesus Christ. Just as He raised up the prophets (who were never accepted in their own lands!), He will raise up knights of the cross whose only shield is the Truth and His Life.

See? The glory of the Lord shone round about them!

It's ironically admirable that TEC leadership is "riding this political agenda to the end" - they fervently believe in something, unlike many modern Christians. Once again, the paradox of the Christian life is illustrated: we can learn quite a lot from our enemies, just in a different way than they intend. God always brings some good out of the manifold ills of we, the fallen.

Thank God for bishops Love and Lawrence, at least.