Hey People

Hey everyone, I'm Hughsie.

First thing to get out of the way, I'm an atheist. I'm here hoping to better understand the Christian viewpoint and hopefully learn something (though I'm pretty comfortable in my lack of belief so I don't envisage converting or anything). I'm not sure how open this place is to that but I'm guessing someone reading this will be able to inform me. I'm not here to try and de-convert anyone but I would like to be able to simply state my views if asked (and I will be respectful). If that isn't something this place is comfortable with I will respect your wishes and leave.

Anyways, a bit about myself; I'm 22, English, and I like football (soccer) and films.

 

Hi. I'm also English, an easy going Anglican (liberal catholic). And I like films and football (soccer). And I'm 69.

Two points. This forum is dominated by Americans, many of whom are scarred by the recent difficulties in the Episcopal Church (USA). They are not the relaxed Anglicans you meet in England. In the months I have been here I have had some threads stopped and been banned for a week on one occasion. I am considered middle of the road in Church of England circles but "unorthodox", even maverick, here.

Second, re atheism. In my experience nearly every Christian website attracts "new atheists". For example, the BBC Christian Topic Forum (now defunct) was so infiltrated by them that it was virtually an "atheist club" and they tried to use it even for off-topic discussions. Most, but not all, used it to attack religion or to proselytise (unsuccessfully, I'm glad to say). Anglicans are supposed to be rather a meek lot, an easy target. I am not. I now belong to another forum (not this one) where we have aggressive atheists. I stand my ground.

Now that might seem a bit hostile to you. But as far as I'm concerned if your agenda is not to convert or de-convert, fair enough.

 

Not here!

Welcome Hughsie. How can we answer your questions and help you out of your unbelief?

 

Thanks for the welcomes.

I quite enjoy relaxed discussions with theists but they can be very difficult to come by, last year I did an Alpha course that I was invited to by my local vicar and thoroughly enjoyed the discussions we had.

I don't see myself becoming a believer. It would take some pretty strong evidence to make me accept the notion of a deity, evidence I am yet to see. Also, I highly doubt I would ever believe in the Christian religion, it just doesn't make sense to me. For the record I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

Just out of interest, what were the recent difficulties in the Episcopal Church?

 

I'll let the Americans reply in detail (if they wish to) but basically it's to do with gay clergy.

 

Welcome aboard H! May God bless your time here. I'm very excited to have you here. After all, some of my favorite Christians were comfortable atheists at on time or another in their lives...Lewis, Chesterton, that guy who looks at me in the mirror...atheism is a great start on the quest for truth. May you seek boldly and in seeking, find.

 

I used to be a very comfortable atheist. It's just too misanthropic and illogical to be maintained for too long.

 

Search for 'episcopalian scandal' or 'episcopalian heresy' and you will get more info than one man can stomach. Just the fact that they had a gay bishop "file for divorce" from his partner is enough to cause a wretch at the state of modern Christianity.

 

Hi Hughsie and welcome from a fellow atheists. I also don't seek to convert those here, but maybe to every so often challenge them in their understanding of Christianity.
Possibly you, like me, here in quiet New Zealand, thought there was just one Anglican church in each country. I am staggered by the diverse groups and polemics that go with Anglicanism in the States. This has been the biggest eye opener to me from this forum.

You said
"I don't see myself becoming a believer. It would take some pretty strong evidence to make me accept the notion of a deity, evidence I am yet to see. Also, I highly doubt I would ever believe in the Christian religion, it just doesn't make sense to me."

Well fair enough, thats your view, but what amazes me in Christians seem to be on the defensive in these discussions. Why aren't they on the offensive backing atheists into a corner with reasoned arguements and demanding answers to searching questions. Just my two pennies worth.

 

I thought you were an agnostic. So you're "AnglicanAtheist" are you? With a mission, like so many "atheists", to "challenge" us? As I said in my post above, you are not alone. Nearly every Anglican website attracts "new atheists". And I was not aware that (in this forum) Christians were on the defensive in these discussions. That could be that I have not noticed you "challenging" us.

Yes, here in (relatively) quiet England, we have virtually no splinter groups from Anglicanism. The two I can think of are insignificant: the hapless "Ordinariate". And some people in Romney Marsh. That's probably because we're broad church. And although I often disagree with Spherelink, I too would find difficulties if I were an Episcopalian in the USA.

 

I used to be a very comfortable agnostic. It was neither misanthropic or illogical But being CofE gives me far more comfort and joy.

 

Can I add to my earlier post, please. The purpose of the site is to advance traditional orthodox Anglican Christianity: not to challenge it. And the house rules state that there shall be no derogatory comments about Anglicanism or the Church of England. Or Christianity.

If you and Hughsie can live with that, fair enough. The atheists I've come across in other forums certainly would not respect such rules.

 

The thing I'm concerned about (and the reason I asked about my atheist status in this thread) is the phrase 'derogatory comments' is quite loose. Is it interpreted to mean that, if someone asks me about my views, I can't explain them because doing so would be derogatory to Christianity, or does it mean that making clearly insult comments is not allowed?

I've seen other Christian forums interpret that sorta phrase in different ways.

 

So, as an atheist, you've visited (? are involved in) "other Christian forums" to "better understand our viewpoint and learn something". Seemingly, these other forums have not entirely met your needs.

Fair enough. But what reading have you done? What clergy have you met? Do you go to church for example?

 

hughsie, if you havent already done so, i highly recommend some of the historical documents available on this website, especially Jewel's Apology and the catechism. Also, the 39 articles are very helpful in understanding the Anglican viewpoint. And of course there is no better resource for undrrstanding the Christian viewpoint than the Bible. i hope this is helpful

 

I would second these questions. Christian forums can be hit or miss, in my experience.

 

Can I thank Spherelink for his reply, and make a point to Admin. As I've said earlier, other forums I've been to are infested with "challenging" atheists. Their agenda is not always, indeed not usually, a friendly one.

 

I cant seem to find the Quote button but Seagull said
"
I thought you were an agnostic. So you're "AnglicanAtheist" are you? With a mission, like so many "atheists", to "challenge" us? As I said in my post above, you are not alone. Nearly every Anglican website attracts "new atheists". And I was not aware that (in this forum) Christians were on the defensive in these discussions. That could be that I have not noticed you "challenging" us."
Yes sorry that was a slip (and not a Freudian one) I was also thinking of my post about Athiests and discimination when I posted that and also the "fellow" bit came from Hughsie saying " For the record I consider myself an agnostic atheist."

More to come (wife has just called me for tea.)

 

Seagull also said

"Can I add to my earlier post, please. The purpose of the site is to advance traditional orthodox Anglican Christianity: not to challenge it. And the house rules state that there shall be no derogatory comments about Anglicanism or the Church of England. Or Christianity."

I didn't mean to challenge you to change your ideas but to present you with challenges to further understand your beliefs as you might challenge your children to solve some problem or puzzle at school.

For the record I don't seek to change anyones allegances and I also don't think Christians are stupid or missguided for believing what they do.I admit a good case can be made for believing in God. My view is that many Christians know that they are saved and then just sit back and bask in the sunlight of this saving grace without giving any thought to problems (of a biblical nature ) that Christianity present. My interests are Anglicanism as such and Biblical apologetics. I know I haven't "challenged" people a lot but I'm here for the long haul and will bring up issues when they appear to arrive.
Did you notice when Alcibiades brought up the issue of Jesus ,on the face of it, getting the wrong name for the high priest in Mk 2:26, nobody said anything? Why didn't they accept this challenge?